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The Versatile B-52 • Now Close Air Support (2017)

Gung Ho Vids · Youtube · 1 HN comments
HN Theater has aggregated all Hacker News stories and comments that mention Gung Ho Vids's video "The Versatile B-52 • Now Close Air Support (2017)".
Youtube Summary
The B-52 Bomber from years ago has been used in many roles. The B-52H Stratofortress is now being used by the U.S. Air Force in a new role, as a close air support aircraft. Filmed February 2017.

Film Credits: SrA Jordan Castelan, TSgt Jose Rodriguez, SrA Gabriel Stuart
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I feel ya. The A-10 has so many fans (and for good reason), that it's nigh impossible for anyone to believe it's obsolete. But you're right, and you're perhaps being unfairly downvoted.

There's a great article here breaking this down: https://baloogancampaign.com/2015/02/02/10-future-us-close-a...

To summarize: - The A-10 was designed for an era when SAMs weren't as sophisticated as they are today. The GAU-8 cannon was to be an affordable weapon for eliminating tanks, but even as it was entering service it was soon clear that modern systems were outranging the cannon, and the Maverick soon became the primary anti-armor weapon of the A-10 due to it's standoff range. (source: colleague who was an A-10 test pilot (in the only two-seater made no less!) and links I can't find now)

- This proved true in Iraq (see link above) where the A-10 was getting shot up quite a bit against frontline units, and F-16s with their higher speed were sent in instead. It's a good reminder here that again, the cannon is no longer the primary weapon against armor in a high-threat environment. When that's taken into account, the A-10 and F-16 have similar weapons capabilities.

- The A-10s primary advantage in a low-threat environment is it's high endurance time. Here, it's being squeeze from two sides: Low-cost COIN aircraft like the A-29 Super Tucano, and high altitude bombers with targeting pods like the B-52. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw2qPzl1gtM). The A-29 is very effective in the counterinsurgency role for a fraction of the cost where it's not running against sophisticated AA systems. On the other end, you have the B-52, loitering at 35,000+ with an enormous load of munitions that can be called down on command and well above the range of man-portable systems.

- Check this video here of the late John McCain and a hearing with the Air Force. I've FFed the time to the general's answer to him. McCain, experienced as he was, is looking at this from a prior era here, and I think the General proves it. https://youtu.be/_up7IHd3LDs?t=218

The Air Force, feeling the budget squeeze, is rightfully concluding that the A-10 can go. They can perform the COIN/light ground attack role with much cheaper aircraft or by leveraging the huge advances in targeting with pods attached to the B-52, B-1, and F-15/F-16. At the high-threat end, they have the F-35, who's stealth, ECM, and sensors make it much more survivable than the A-10. (No, really. It does.)

And lastly, if anyone wants to see what this actually plays out like, try the A-10 simulator in DCS. It's a fantastic module. And then better yet, fly a mission or two on the public servers with the A-10 in a mixed threat environment. It'll be eyeopening.

And regarding those? I flew as part of a group online where we'd design and then fight realistic scenarios for our online wing. Props to our A-10 crews, but I got to see (simulated of course) just how limited these craft sometimes were. They were incredibly slow, and so took forever to get to the operational area, meaning the rest of our fighters had to either take off late, leaving them uncovered, or take off early and hit the tanker several times so that they'd be in the strike area to cover when they arrived. With a full load they were sitting ducks most of the time; jinking away from modern SAMs was practically impossible unless you were really sticking close to a ridgeline, which limited where you could go. Often the A-10s would get to the area after a long cruise, only to find some threats still up. They'd then have to loiter somewhere while an F/A-18 with HARMs came to clean up. We had a lot of aircraft overhead and around the A-10 to give it a role in the mission, whereas a package of 2-4 F-16s/F/A-18s with Mavericks could accomplish the same.

(Me? I flew the Viggen. We don't need no escorts, Swedish Dorito go "zoom".)

Anyways, hope this helps illustrate the issue for some of your detractors.

rfreytag
Excellent points.

But why then do the soldiers on the ground demand the A-10? They are in the field fighting and sometimes dying so from better food to fast Med-Evac what the soldier wants he/she gets to sustain their morale.

What is missing from the stand-off platforms or fast movers that the A-10 has and gains it loyal supporters? Is it that the soldier sees the pilot get into the conflict with them?

What was it like to fly the Viggen? Any posts on that aircraft you can recommend?

ckozlowski
>But why then do the soldiers on the ground demand the A-10?

I think that's a much more difficult question to answer and probably a lot more subjective. Define "Demand"? Do they demand it over other platforms? And why? I don't have the answer to any of those, and I suspect that the extent that they demand or prefer the A-10 might be in part due to the fact that it just looks impressive. I think you might be onto something as well with regards to "seeing them in the conflict"; the A-10 is often regarded as "being down in the mud" with the troops, where as a JDAM drop from an F/A-18 or B-52 is going to be a angry fist out of nowhere. You can't bond with it, except maybe the soldier talking to it over the radio. =P

The Viggen (in DCS) is hella fun. It's very fast at low-level, and brings a different feel than any other warplane in in the sim. It's very much a product of it's time; with cutting edge electronics but from the 60s and 70s. It's also a very purpose-built craft too: The ideal Viggen mission is to plan a route to strike against a pre-planned target, dump it's warload in an instant, and get out. The electronics are rather janky and will remind you of an Apollo-era computer, but again, they were cutting edge for the time, and it's remarkable how effective they are still. In DCS the Viggen will teach you good planning and tactics as your weapons and sensors are relatively primitive. But it's navigation is excellent, it's speed and handling at low-level are supurb, and it automates in all of the right places so that you can focus more on your surroundings.

In DCS I flew it in those same large scale missions along A-10s. We had rudimentary ECM and chaff/flares to keep us alive. But it was really our speed that did so. You pop up close to the target, using the ground to mask you all the way in, keeping your speed as high as possible (this is where good planning helps) and then egressing out, preferably back under cover (again, planning!) Done well, we'd be long gone before a SAM could respond, let alone close the distance. It didn't always work though, and against targets that were much more in the open, we didn't do so well. And that's pushing mach .9, or 600+ KIAS. So you can see how an A-10 bumbling along at 200-300 is having a rougher go of it.

I'd check out this great video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpFIHZJbTtY Also search the /r/hoggit discussions over on Reddit. Viggen has a small but loyal following. It's not a good all-rounder, but it does certain things very well, and with style. =D

Also, check out any of the "F-111 w/ Jeff Guinn videos" over on Aircrew Interview, and how they handled SAMs and how "high speed/low level" was a very difficult problem for air defense to solve back then. Different plane, but very similar mission set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAyMklJSwi8

AtlasBarfed
It would probably be the loiter. Sure you can order in something and it gets dropped. Then the fighter returns to base. The A-10 affords flexibility to those units that are doing counterinsurgency against people that will attack, retreat, attack, retreat, attack. So you can probably use the A-10 repeatedly as you track down where the "enemy" is.

Plus, maybe you didn't get the first sighting correct, or once the JDAM hits a bunch of others scurry and you want more.

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