HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

It was heavily discussed a few years ago, for example in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13060159

They last for a log time, but the important detail is that they have very low power, like 1mW with the size factor of a normal battery, so you need like a dozen for a (old) wrist watch and s few hundred to turn on a led.

More details in:

http://nanoscale.blogspot.com/2020/08/diamond-batteries-unli...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM (EEVblog)

⬐ cameronh90

Could be useful for things that wake up very infrequently and run for a short amount of time.

⬐ tragictrash

Nearly all of the devices you would want to power / we have the ability to build have a lifespan orders of magnitude shorter than the lifespan of the battery. It just doesn't make sense any way you look at it. The top comment is right. There's much better, more cost effective solutions for powering the proposed device, and better, more practical uses for the 'spent' nuclear fuel.

⬐ kgc

Pacemaker?

⬐ orlp

What could possibly go wrong?

⬐ tragictrash

The pacemaker is probably only designed to last for 50 or so years. I'm not an expert, looking up the statistics, that seeems to be a very generous estimation. So you want to put a power source that can last hundreds of thousands of years in a device that's going to last 50, at great expense?

⬐ yb303

After death, the person will be giving back his/hers "water of life", like in Dune, to be reused by others :)

⬐ marcosdumay

Well, there aren't many reliable chemical battery designs that can last for a few decades. We have stuff that lasts for at most one decade or two, and we have the nuclear stuff.

Of course, if you are using the nuclear stuff, you will prefer something shorter lived, so you can use a smaller battery. But I don't see why that huge objection on using the longer lived stuff too.

⬐ belorn

> like 1mW with the size factor of a normal battery

It seems like Carbon-14 is just not very radioactive, and if I read the Wikipedia article right, Geiger counters can't even detect the radiation for small amounts, which makes me wonder if they would even trigger around the 1 gram in those batteries.

Looking at a bit more sources, Carbon-14 radiation has a maximum distance of 22 cm in air and 0.27 mm in body tissue. The half-distance layer in water is 0.05 mm. In addition, Carbon-14 in nuclear waste tend to also include tritium, which is even weaker.

If we wanted powerful batteries, low-level waste seems like a bad choice. If the material don't even need shielding to be around, it is unlikely to carry a lot of energy. Intermediate-level waste and high-level waste would likely be better suited, especially Intermediate-level waste since those do carry a lot of energy but does not require cooling.

Why are you interested in this?

If it is for anything other than very LOW power (microwatts), you're going to be disappointed.

It is essentially a beta emitter hooked to a capacitor via some electronics to handle voltage conversion. The thing is the beta source is use it or lose it, and very low power. If you scaled this up to power a Tesla, it would be a nightmare, as it would need to dissipate the full power the car requires, all the time, or it would melt down (aka Fukashima)

For a longer debunk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM

It is not clear that they have a real working prototype.

The current is very low, only 100uW, and there are similar batteries made with tritium. More info in a video by EEVblog eevblog had a good video about this product: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM (it's old, but I can't find any evidence of improvements.)

Also, there is a calculation of the low the maximal current per kilogram in http://nanoscale.blogspot.com/2020/08/diamond-batteries-unli...

To add to the sample size of n=1, a few months ago, there were many articles about “nano diamond” batteries that will supposedly solve the radioactive waste problem. Dave Jones of EEVBlog debunked it pretty quickly: https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM

Basically, every few months, a company comes out with claims that battery tech or e-waste has been revolutionized, but it’s always a bunch of bunk claims made using a multitude of weasel words.

This nonexistent product has been discussed and debunked here before.

Here's EEVblog's take: https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM

Where is innovation and efficiency ?

To me it smells like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM and all about patents, marketing and money burning, but I don't know as much as these professors do so maybe I am wrong.

⬐ Blammar

Oh, there are definitely interesting problems to solve. See my post below for some issues.

It is not clear that they have a real working prototype.

The current is very low, only 100uW, and there are similar batteries made with tritium. More info in a video by EEVblog eevblog had a good video about this product: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM

Also, there is a calculation of the low the maximal current per kilogram in http://nanoscale.blogspot.com/2020/08/diamond-batteries-unli...

eevblog had a good video about this product: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM

⬐ tdeck

TL;DR it's a 100 microwatt power source which is essentially nothing for most applications.

⬐ p1mrx

It's not even that; it's a digital rendering of a 100 microwatt power source.

⬐ hinkley

There was talk years ago about scavenged power to run physically embedded sensors intermittently.

For instance, absorbing vibrations in the superstructure of a building to run strain gauge or moisture sensor a couple times a day, per location.

⬐ oh_sigh

At that rate you could put a small battery in it which would last years before needing servicing.

⬐ shrubble

https://lastminuteengineers.com/esp32-sleep-modes-power-cons...

Would it be enough to power an ESP32 every so often? Put in deep sleep mode, power source charges small battery, wake up, do something, sleep again, etc.

⬐ ranma42

"in deep sleep mode, ESP32’s current consumption is almost 150 uA"

Assuming a 3V power supply is needed, at 100uW, you only get ~30uA, so no.

However the "Hibernation" mode would work (however, this looses memory state): "This Power mode of ESP32 consumes a minimum amount of current, which is around 5 uA."

But you'd not be able to wake up very often since the active mode power draw is very high (and even higher yet when connected to wifi). You'd be much better off using a proper low-power microcontroller.

⬐ jansan

It may be comparable to tritium markers that glow continuously for 10 years without recharging. Their glow is really weak, so you cannot use it as a light bulb replacement, but there are useful applications like markers for emergency equipment or watches.

⬐ pantalaimon

The Ambiq Apollo3 uses 6µA/MHz at 3.3V (so 20µW/MHz), so that's something.

You can also use it to charge a capacitor that can provide short bursts of energy so you can use it for sensors that sleep most of the time, taken a measurement and send some data, then sleep again.

⬐ jjoonathan

Right, and eevblog mentions that class of application. The hype train, in contrast, tries to hide it. They're not just failing to properly present their application scope, they actually went back and removed images and datasheets containing the current rating. That's the problem.

Low-power energy scavenging is cool. Deliberately misleading people is not.

EEVblog did a debunk of this at https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM

Basically, the power density of these are so low that they're useless for most applications. Sure, it might last 28,000 years, but you're only getting 100 microwatts from a battery the size of a normal AA battery.

⬐ oceanghost

You know you're in trouble when thunderf00t AND EEVblog debunk you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDFlV0OEK5E

⬐ systemvoltage

Flagged this article, I also watched EEVBlog’s take on it and it sounds like complete bullshit.

Let’s not pollute the front page with this nonsense. Please flag this article.

⬐ danbruc

The relevant number is its power of 100 µW.

⬐ notRobot

Lots of interesting stuff in the video's comments. Apparently their "advanced circuit board" is a regular charging board off AliExpress [0] with the micro USB port switched out for a transformer. Also, their investor pack [1] has no actual information on the power output of the batteries.

[0]: https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32703936097.html?trace=wwwdeta...

[1]: https://gofile.io/d/Iorhs5

David Jones from EEVblog isn't buying it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzV_uzSTCTM

https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM

https://youtu.be/uzV_uzSTCTM