HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

I saw a Vox video recently that hinted that the Government WANTED broken unemployment systems after showing some of the bugs that existed in their interface. It infuriated me, because they mentioned Deloitte built it and I (like others have mentioned in this thread) know they are infamous for bad software.

It appeared to me Vox wanted to make people mad at some bogus government conspiracy that a specific state had against it's people. Also that they don't respect the complexities that go into software development.

Edit so you can get mad at Vox too with me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ualUPur6iks&t=1s

⬐ newacct583

So you contend that the ~7x delta in unemployment benefit uptake between states that they start the video with is... solely due to bad Deloitte software? That seems no less suspicious to me.

⬐ thephyber

I haven't seen the video, but the current governor's Chief of Staff complained that the previous governor (both Republicans) actively created a difficult process and legal requirements which were very high hurdles to cross. Part of that are the anti-patterns or dark-patterns in the sign-up system, but the qualification requirements aren't as easy to qualify for as many other states.

⬐ dsparkman

Florida purposely built a broken system under Governor Rick Scott. It was engineered to make sure that as few eligible people could access it as possible. It is socially and technically engineered to make it so that people give up trying to claim the unemployment benefits they are entitled to. Florida used the system to keep their unemployment numbers artificially low coming out 2008 recession.

⬐ ryankupyn

I'd note that while a broken unemployment system would affect statistics on the number of claims made, the official unemployment rate is calculated differently, using the Current Population Survey, and doesn't incorporate data on claims:

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

⬐ thephyber

The state of Florida cares less about the unemployment rate and more about whether they have to pay out of their unemployment fund. The federal government is different because they just increase the deficit whenever the situation is dire.

⬐ bsaul

Blaming website crashes and design flaws on intentional political decisions... really ?

I'm not saying it isn't the case, but as a software developer that would definitely not be the first explanation that would come to my mind (unfortunately for our industry)...

⬐ loopz

Tech solutions are dictated by historical demands, governance and policies. These latter preconditions preclude simplicity, efficiency and robustness. Having talked with developers that now have to route around "classic systems" for handling new "pandemic" requirements; if they decided, they'd just implement UBI. Unfortunately, politicians don't talk to developers and there's just too many intermediaries. So instead, we end up with workarounds piled upon workarounds, for handling all of policy and exceptions.

⬐ samsquire

TLDR; the systems cannot support the load and they're buggy

Why isn't this a federal system? It is in the UK

⬐ DanBC

(I didn't downvote you. I don't think your comment deserves downvotes).

The UK system could not cope with covid demand, and we had to make considerable changes to the way benefit is claimed and paid in order to cope. Many people are still stuck not getting the correct benefits.

The video talks a lot about decisions made by politicians to appeal to voters by reducing benefit payments: reduce the amount paid each week; reduce the number of weeks that can be claimed for; make it harder to make a claim. All of these are things that happened in the UK system too. (Benefit cap, bedroom tax, 5 week delay, no payment for the 1st week, online applications only, etc etc).

⬐ brudgers

If the UK were a US state it would be 12th largest. Smaller than Michigan. England itself is the size of Alabama. The distance between London and Baku (remember all that griping about the last Europa League final?) is 200km less than the distance between San Diego and Boston. Driving across Texas from Louisiana to El Paso (de Norte) via I10 is about as far as London to Rome. Speaking of which, Louisiana was settled by the French and uses Cannon Law not Common Law. Texas and everything west below the 42nd Parallel was ruled by Spain into the 19th century and for the most part organized around Catholic missions. Texas of course was at one time an independent sovereign nation. California is still officially The Republic of California.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that US politics occur in a geographic reality that is incommensurate with the ordinary European conception of a country as a rather small homogeneous political entity. The US National Parks have more area than Germany. Sure that's largely because of Alaska. But that's kind of the point.

⬐ vertex-four

Have you actually tried to claim Universal Credit in the UK? It's a complete mess - I've supported disabled folk through it and they've stated suicidal thoughts through the process.

⬐ sokoloff

The United States was founded on a premise that federal powers were limited via enumeration and those not enumerated are reserved for the states or the people.

As a result, a great many things that other countries do centrally are done in a distributed fashion in the US.

[0] - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/tenth_amendment

⬐ dig1

Tech is usually a safe haven (of blaming) when someone needs to hide the malfunctioning system.

I saw several cases where public agencies deployed tech not to make things easier for the end-user (set aside the talk they are trying to sell you), but to offload surge of requests - something like the first line of defense.