HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

Yeah the previous version of SpotMini was way more cuter with it's hand/head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7IEVTDjng

⬐ mac01021

These press releases from BD are certainly impressive and are always great fun to watch.

But they're mostly silent on the matter of how much autonomy the robots are operating with. I never know how much of their behavior is human directed, or how those directions are conveyed to the robots.

⬐ visarga

They say that robots are being remote controlled. So, there is an operator telling it to duck, grab, and where to go, but the robot does the actual balancing on itself.

I am a little bit disappointed that they are not using deep learning for robotics. Instead, they are simulating the robot based off a model, using Control Theory. It might be easier to get results from Control Theory but it doesn't offer a path towards more complex behavior, like Deep Learning.

⬐ mac01021

Thanks! That seems mostly like what I expected.

I would have to practice with the controls for a really long time to be able to pick up a soda can that deftly, though.

While they are not using deep learning, I think they're doing good work building a platform that can later be controlled via neural net or whatever. The control-theory-based balance and locomotion means that the lowest-level aspects of operation will not demand resources from the neural net and provides the prototypers in the meantime with a way of experimenting to see what body designs might be most effective.

⬐ argonaut

Deep learning for robotics is tremendously harder than you're making it out to be. It's not magic pixie dust you just sprinkle over something. The state of the art in physical robot deep learning is robots learning a single simple action like picking up something in front of them, and even this is quite difficult.

⬐ jonnycowboy

BD is only focusing on the platform.

Google is working on the deep learning aspect of finding out what to do / action and how to do it.

The control theory remark above is true, however even with deep learning, you can start your estimate of the parameters with the current control state, which reduces training time significantly.

⬐ Animats

Modern control theory is rather close to machine learning. Adaptive model-based feedforward control is machine learning. The machine learning part builds a model of the dynamics of the system. Then that model is inverted (solved for control inputs) to make it a control system.

They're doing this right. They have a very good basic body control system. Now someone can build higher level strategies to get work done on top of that. That's how biological brains work, after all. Google/Alphabet could, for example, reuse much of their automatic driving software as high level control for this robot.

Google should have BD manufacture a few hundred of those machines, and try to get the cost down to $25K or less per unit for that production run.

⬐ argonaut

Sure, the brain uses the concept of abstraction, but that is so far away from supporting the assertion that "that's how the brain works."

⬐ Animats

Mammal brains have multiple functional units. The cerebellum does most of the motor control. The cortex does most of the planning and deciding. The cortex acts through the cerebellum, not by driving muscles directly. Most of Boston Dynamics' control systems are doing cerebellum-level functions. As with the cerebellum, this involves fast control via feedback loops.

⬐ argonaut

Except for the inconvenient fact that the cerebellum is not explicitly solving control theory equations.

And also that other inconvenient fact that neuroscientists barely understand the brain at all.

⬐ Animats

"Except for the inconvenient fact that the cerebellum is not explicitly solving control theory equations."

It might be. You can invert a model by training a neural net to compute its inverse.

⬐ sharemywin

reinforcement learning goes along way too.

⬐ argonaut

It might be. It might not be. Hardly a compelling argument.

⬐ gene-h

If it really is using all electric actuators that's pretty big. This would be one of the first of Boston Dynamics' all electric robots.

What exactly does using electric actuators over hydraulics buy us? Less noise, greater efficiency, and reliability. Reliability is very important for both house hold and industrial robots. We typically measure reliability in terms of Mean Time Between Failures, aka, how long it typically last before breaking. For industrial robots this is important as the higher the reliability is the more money it makes. Industrial robots tend to have MTBFs of 100,000 hours or about 10 years.

Reliability is also important for household robots too, a big expensive robot that breaks down all the time appeals to few people.

⬐ jonnycowboy

Reliability is not an issue for industrial hydraulics (they rarely break down) however they do require a lot of maintenance, are filled with hot (dirty) hydraulic fluid and are noisy (pumps). Electric solves all those issues.

⬐ Animats

The previous Spot robot was also all-electric. Hydraulic power was needed for the bigger machines. (Also, Raibert liked designing hydraulic systems; he has a patent on the valve/actuator combo used in BigDog.) Cube/square law - mass increases with the cube of the size. This is why insects have tiny leg cross sections in comparison to their length.

Battery life will be a problem, but it's clearly agile enough to plug itself in for a recharge.

⬐ sharemywin

you could also have some kind of stand by packs waiting.

⬐ chrisbennet

Watching it wipe out on banana peels cracked me up! Does that make me a bad person?

⬐ Tistel

it was weird. When I saw it fall I felt a spike of empathetic pain for it. My mirror neurons fired: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

I felt bad for it.

⬐ nothrows

You can see the deep sadness in its googly eyes.

⬐ codezero

Nope!

These robots are amazing in their realism of behavior that I find myself referring to them as creatures rather than robots.

Watching them get kicked makes me feel bad for them, just like I would for an animal, and watching them fall on a banana makes me laugh, just like I would if an animal or person did (so long as they weren't seriously injured, unless I didn't like them :P)

⬐ joezydeco

This might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkv-_LqTeQA

⬐ Erwin

Quite a few parodies around, here's another amusing one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAmyZP-qbTE

⬐ freshyill

The skull-like face doesn't exactly scream "friendly" to me.

⬐ Leon

It doesn't look like it was designed to be a face but a gripping hand that they put googly eyes on for fun.

⬐ freshyill

On closer inspection, you're right. I originally watched it on my phone, and it just screamed "skull" to me.

⬐ pavel_lishin

Mount a second one, and you've got yourself a Pierson's Puppeteer - and who's less threatening than a Pierson's Puppeteer?

⬐ daveguy

Google just said, "Wait! Did we say we are focusing on a 'household robot' and are therefore going to sell Boston Dynamics? Hehe. Just kidding about selling BD!" The cleaning up, stair climbing and fall recovery are seriously impressive.

⬐ jonnycowboy

Easily the most impressive household robot ever built.

⬐ ccozan

Feels like living in the future.

We could have right now a RoboDog, with some machine guns on it and let them patrol and secure a perimeter. Fire at anything it moves. I hope they solve the issue with the banana peel :), though.

⬐ blacksmith_tb

So much for Asimov's laws, eh? Autonomous weapons have had some problems [1] however. You need to be sure that no friendly fire is possible, and that's a tall order. I'd prefer Robo-sheepdog, myself.

1: http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/9-killed-in-army-horr...

⬐ toomuchtodo

> We could have right now a RoboDog, with some machine guns on it and let them patrol and secure a perimeter. Fire at anything it moves.

Its sad that this is thought of as the innovative use of RoboDog.

⬐ daveguy

Back on its feet within 10 seconds -- looks like the banana peel issue is solved.

⬐ jonnycowboy

You mean Rat Things, right?

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Rat_Things_(Snow_Crash)

⬐ ccozan

Amazing, how the subconscious works. Of course, I re-read that not long ago!

⬐ Animats

Now that's a nice piece of machinery. Much closer to a salable product than the big machines they did for DoD. This is more in line with Google's business model. Maybe this is BD's effort to stay under the Alphabet umbrella. It will be good if it works.

They really have leg control and balance software figured out now. That machine is more agile than any of the previous BD machines.

⬐ mpolichette

Its really amazing to see how functional this robot is. I cant wait for one to take over for some of the more monotonous tasks around the house...

That said, the way it moves around and can keeps its head steady is both really cool, but somewhat terrifying... It seems to conjure up scenes from movies where the antagonist robots are scanning a target before deciding to kill or not.

⬐ kevindeasis

It seems like if you also add googly eyes to any robot like the one in BD's video they begin to appear more friendly.

⬐ mtw

They forgot to kick it to make it lose its balance !

⬐ daveguy

They have an animated gif of playing tug of war with it! They are definitely trying to fix that whole "robot abuse" image that so many people got upset about last time!

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/hv-kG4NOcjymzhIBMnzFNFo7Uqc...

⬐ uzbit

Personally, I like how it all went downhill very quickly in the last 10s.

⬐ tambourine_man

I find them both equally fascinating and scary at the same time.

⬐ dang

Url changed from http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/23/12014008/boston-dynamics-s..., which points to this.

⬐ chillingeffect

What if one of these gets out of control/hacked/malfunctions? This is one more reason we need weapons to protect ourselves.

⬐ daveguy

One of the best XKCDs ever is about this what-if scenario. It addresses full robot sentience -- if they suddenly became aware and tried to take over the world Terminator style. An "out of control / hack / malfunction" would be even more laughable:

https://what-if.xkcd.com/5/

⬐ anonymfus

Then in the worst case you get out of the room and wait until the battery discharges.

If you are seriously worrying about such situation you should also worry that robot can pick up the weapon.

⬐ chillingeffect

How about in a case of a robot raping someone? Should I just let it rape me or someone near me until the batteries die?

Sorry, I was lucky enough to be born in a country where I'm allowed to defend myself. And if a robot or a person starts raping me, I'm not going to let them finish until they wear out.

⬐ gene-h

Robots are currently bumbling electric imbeciles and do not perform well in such adversarial scenarios. They are also more fragile than they seem. One could permanently modify the robot's kinematics with the swift impact of an office chair or percussively decommission it's lidar sensor with a baseball bat.

⬐ daveguy

Or you could just step to the side and laugh while it tries to figure out how to re-orient itself.

⬐ Jack000

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

⬐ jonnycowboy

I imagine this robot is only a few weeks/months away from being able to plug itself in to recharge from any household socket.

⬐ anonymfus

Then you go to the distribution board and turn off electricity in household sockets of that room/apartments/house/block/street/city/country/planet.

⬐ gene-h

Well if it gets out of control, it will probably fall over and not be able get up. If it malfunctions, probably the worst thing that could happen would be the battery pack catching fire, because of consumer safety laws there will be safeties in place to prevent this.

Hacking is an interesting one, only because current laws assume the perpetrator must be in proximity to the crime.

However, this robot is almost certainly not autonomous with the operator hidden behind the camera. Because it's not autonomous, it's going to be difficult to teleoperate over the internet. Telerobots are slow and not very capable[0]. With lag, it's going to be difficult to stab someone with a knife much less pick up a knife.

However, even slow telerobots present interesting legal issues. One might hack a telerobot in the home of some people who are on vacation and use it to unlock the doors so some guy can go in and steal stuff.

http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/robotics-softwar...

⬐ Rezo

It's all electric, and check out the fancy white armor at https://youtu.be/tf7IEVTDjng?t=117

Looks like they've taken the criticism from Google et al. to heart. It was hard to see how the huge, gas-powered robots louder than lawnmowers were going to work for anyone except maybe military applications. Put some state of the art Google AI into this thing and it's not far from a sellable product!

⬐ nulltype

Do farms need robots?

⬐ jandrese

Even the military didn't want them, they were too loud.

⬐ sbierwagen

Who did they get to design the manipulator, David Cronenberg?