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John Oliver claims (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVIXUhZ2AWs#t=12m10s 12m10s) that India has (at least some) public school textbooks that explain that Africans are god's burnt toast, and Caucasians are underdone, and Indians are the proper color. I found that suspicious. Have you heard about that? Is the translation accurate?

⬐ Arnavion

The video doesn't show that part of the textbook. I found some pages from the series but they're pretty innocuous. [1]

But it's probably accurate. It's not a history textbook but a literature textbook for primary school students. It was probably meant to be used in Hindi classes. So this kind of bullshit would fly under the guise of "it's just a story". [2]

[1]: hxxps://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/lamps-of-inspiration-set-of-4-volumes-NZE671/ The "Look Inside the Book" section. The first few pages are just a preface talking about how the book has collected tales to bolster moral values and duties in the reader. Then there are a bunch of contents pages.

The third contents page does match the two short scenes from the video that show the titles of the stories - "8. Nirlobh adarsh jivan" and "17. Parishram ka koi vikalp nahin" (though the latter in the video is titled "Parishram ka vikalp...", no "koi").

So presumably this is the contents page for Prernadeep 3. I can't tell just from the contents page which story might be the one in question, though. The video says it's on page 22 but the contents page doesn't have page numbers. It might be #36 - "Bahin, ham bhaaratiya hain" "Sister, we are Indian" - or #53 perhaps - "Kya aapne ishvar ko dekha hai?" "Have you ever laid eyes on God" ?

The last page has one story and the start of another one (listed in the very first contents page, so preumably from Prernadeep 1 rather than 3), but they're pretty innocuous.

[2]: The larger context around that story is even more amusing, because it's being "told" by Dr Radhakrishnan (President in the 50s and well-known for liking teachers; his birthday is celebrated as "Teacher's Day") to a white person who claims to be very "close to God".

⬐ iamshs

Only people on here can justify books written by Dinanath Batra as "pretty innocuous".

⬐ Arnavion

Don't put words in my mouth. I was talking about the one-and-a-half stories I could read on that website, not the books or the author as a whole.

⬐ iamshs

I quoted you. Read the preface of the book, and the story number 52. How is that "pretty innocuous", and especally a book that is aimed at kids?

No wonder caste discrimination has carried on for centuries in India with learned people like you able to charitably justify the oppression.

⬐ Arnavion

>I quoted you.

No you did not. Nowhere did I say that the books written by Dinanath Batra were pretty innocuous. If you had quoted me, it would've been quite obvious I didn't say what you claimed I did, because a proper quote would look like:

>>I found some pages from the series but they're pretty innocuous.

"some pages from the series". It doesn't get any clearer than that.

>Read the preface of the book, and the story number 52. How is that "pretty innocuous", and especally a book that is aimed at kids?

I already summarized what the preface says in my original comment. And #52 is not in the pages I linked to. The only ones are #55 and the first half of #56. #55 has a Mughal emperor praising a Hindu man for giving the emperor's daughter an Islamic education despite his religion, and #56 starts off with the son of a Naval officer in a war between England and France before it is cut off. I say again, that just these one-and-a-half stories that I have access to are pretty innocuous.

>No wonder caste discrimination has carried on for centuries in India with learned people like you able to charitably justify the oppression.

Incidentally, the rest of the comment that you're misquoting clarified pretty clearly that I'm against the story that the Aljazeera video talks about. But you do you; don't let facts and reading comprehension get in the way of your spiel and slander.

⬐ pratik661

Thanks for looking this up. My hindi is really bad and I could not decipher the name of the book from the video.

⬐ Bhilai

I have studied through the curriculum of one of largest board of public school education system in India (CBSE) and I can attest that I have never read such a thing in any of text books. That does not mean it does not exist, but its definitely not a prevalent notion.

⬐ pratik661

This sounds like perfect example. The story isn't 100% false but it probably needs some context.

I've actually heard the oven story before. Its an absurd (and very racist) aphorism, but I think calling it a "lesson" from a textbook would be a stretch. What likely happened was that the school selected anthologies that kids could read to develop their reading skills. It probably included that absurd story.

I think the American equivalent would be if a 2nd grade reading book included an old fairy tale with some outdated racist undertones (ie Zwarte Piet), and then the media ran with "American textbooks claim a black elf will kidnap children if they misbehave".

PS. I'll need to check of the textbook story.

⬐ iamshs

The books are written by Dinanath Batra, a well known history revisionist and Hindu supremacist. Let's not try to cover them up as "absurd aphorisms", these books are targeted at children and their intended purpose exactly is to show India and Indian civilization as a pinnacle during ancient times.

⬐ pratik661

The context behind the specific passage referred to in the show (about the races baked in the oven) is that it is a conversational exchange (banter, if you will) between an Indian and a Briton. I believe the protagonist of that passage was "throwing shade" at the Briton after he makes a haughty statement.

This entire exchange sounds ridiculously stupid and implausible to us now. However, in the 1940s (I think thats when the protagonist of the passage is from), casual racism towards Indians made that a plausible situation. I think this aphorism dates back to the 1930s/40s as a standard reply to casual racism from Europeans. Its obviously outdated (and racist) in today's context. However to claim that this is a "lesson taught in Indian schools" is a mischaracterization.

interesting tidbit - the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVIXUhZ2AWs is blocked from UK IP addresses as well! works fine from US IP address though.

If you are one interested in the Trump visit of India or Indian socio-political dynamics and haven't watched John Oliver's latest episode, I implore you did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVIXUhZ2AWs.

It ranks amongst his best and he presents a powerful summary of the current Indian political dynamic.

Oliver introduces Trump's visit to India against the backdrop of a blithe Indian media that seems more interested in figuring out whether the US first lady and the President will make an unscheduled visit to the famous Taj Mahal. The Indian TV reporter describes the Taj Mahal as the "enduring symbol of love". There are also quick depictions of throngs of (Modi accolytes) fawning at the US President's arrival and Trump's total lack of understanding of recent Indian history vis-a-vis Modi's complicity in the Gujrat riots - Trump calling Modi the great unifier and father of India (face palm).

This introduction is then used by Oliver in what is a complete 15 minute virtuoso rout of any shred of reverence, esteem or dignity for both Modi and Trump. Something to behold. Oliver does this with crucial evidence showing Modi's divisive Hindu nation-state ideologies linked absurdly (only because it is true) to Hitler's Nazi ideologies! It is simultaneously comical, absurd and terrifying. Then there are revelations of the ruling party's (BJP's) systematic attempt at revising Indian history in school curricula - excoriating the proud history of India's secural founding "fathers" in favour of aspects of bizarre creationist style text about the origins of different races! (I balked).

This episode stands out as one of Oliver's best because he crafted the best "shit sandwich" argument I've seen in a while. He neatly folds the absurd proposition made by Trump that Modi is a unifier of the people. But only ironically for the opposite reason! The Sunday punch lands with "Because India, home of this enduring symbol of love (points to the image of the Taj), frankly deserves a lot more than this (points to the mugshot of Modi) temporary symbol of hate."

In case anyone is curious, here's the link to the episode on the Last Week Tonight YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/qVIXUhZ2AWs

⬐ joshschreuder

It is geofenced in Australia at least.

I just watched the episode yesterday on Youtube. There wasn't anything excessively critical of Modi outside of Oliver's usual needling shtick.

He definitely called out how BJP party founders adored Hitler though.

https://youtu.be/qVIXUhZ2AWs?t=499

⬐ nabla9

>excessively critical

Other than pointing out the fact that Hindu nationalists are hateful violent supremacists who remove citizenship from Indian Muslims and are already building concentration camps for them.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/india

⬐ three_seagrass

>excessively critical of Modi outside of Oliver's usual needling shtick.

I don't know why you left that particular key context in the sentence out of the quote, because Oliver wasn't excessively critical of Modi. I think you are mistaking my comment for defending the BJP, which it's not.

I did mention that Oliver was ripping into the BJP, which is the nationalist party you mention.

⬐ three_seagrass

>excessively critical of Modi outside of Oliver's usual needling shtick.

I don't know why you left that particular key context in the sentence out of the quote, because Oliver wasn't excessively critical of Modi.

I did mention that Oliver was ripping into the BJP, which is the nationalist party you mention

⬐ booboolayla

I thought Indian Muslims were all in Pakistan - the land they carved from India with the help of the British?

⬐ snambi

Hindu nationalists are hateful violent supremacists who remove citizenship from Indian Muslims

The above statement is NOT true. This is mis-information.

⬐ srean

Their politicians don't even celebrate and eulogize Nathuram Godse who assassinated Gandhi

⬐ nabla9

I stand behind that claim.

There is law proposals that will effectively accomplish this.

⬐ 0xcafecafe

Can you please point that out? Your previous statement is factually incorrect. The law in question (CAA) grants a one time amnesty to religiously persecuted minorities from neighboring countries of India. Heck, even Sri Lankan Tamils (Hindus) are not included since that was a sectarian conflict. And that amnesty is one time for anyone who came in before December 2014. For the rest, the existing path to naturalize in 11 years remains. It does not affect any existing citizen whatsoever.

Regarding NRC, it was a supreme court mandated exercise which was hastily done in Assam without a well thought out process. There has been no proposal issued about a nationwide NRC and what it would look like. The govt also clarified there are no plans to execute NRC anytime the future.

I thought this forum is more on facts and less on rhetoric. I abhor the banning of anything critical but we should be wary of misinformation at the same time.

⬐ tibbydudeza

And the RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) is just bunch of misunderstood non facist folks who love khaki uniforms and absolutely have no agenda against the Muslim citizens of India.

Is the OP for real ???.

⬐ eklavya

Assuming good faith I invite you to try and learn more about the CAA (law in question). I don’t know why people keep saying it takes away citizenship of Indian Muslims when it only provides citizenship to persecuted non muslim minorities from neighbouring countries because of the promise made when the partition on the basis of religion was done. The minorities are living in hell in Pakistan (girl kidnapped from her marriage ceremony to be forcefully “wedded” to a Muslim guy) and to a lesser extent in Bangladesh. Minorities dropped from 20% to less than 2%. While in India it rose from 14M to 200M.

It also doesn’t give citizenship to people who have already not entered India before 2014.

On the issue of non inclusion of Muslims, it’s just practically not possible when you have more than 30,000,000 illegal immigrants from Bangladesh according to 90s figures, unless you want to just give citizenship to everybody.

India has extremists of every religion like everywhere else. Some people only ever see Hindu extremism. They are either removed from reality or have an agenda.

⬐ ak1234

Radical Hinduism is more dangerous than radical Islam. The harmless looking vegetarian upper caste Hindus who work in the next cubicle is nothing but a cauldron of hate and bigotry.

After all they started practicing un-touchability and casteism before Westerners knew a continent called Africa existed.

⬐ legolas2412

Radical Hinduism more dangerous than radical Islam? No way. Have you lost all critical thinking?

We are protesting this because india is a secular country that is on its way to become a theocratic Hindu nationalist country. We say that modi is making India a Hindu Pakistan.

You see, we consider that derogatory. Pakistan is derogatory. It's because Pakistan is already a theocratic country, and even with CAA and NRC, India is better for its religious minorities.

⬐ ak1234

Yes, radical Hinduism is more dangerous.

Radical Islam is on the wane...hit its peak with Osama, ISIS etc. Even an idiot like Muhammed Bin Salman helps to defeat radical Islam (if not he will be gone.)

What remains is Iran led Shia groups. They are not as vicious as Sunni groups financed by Saudis.

Radical Hinduism is what you see in India right now. And the biggest enablers are the suit-boot wearing Hindu upper castes in USA, the original inventors of bigotry and racism.

⬐ dharmach

India shouldn't discriminate her citizens based on religion that is understandable but to expect that she must also treat Muslim and non-Muslim citizens of Islamic countries as equally suffering refugees would be a discrimination.

⬐ foolinaround

> when it only provides citizenship to persecuted non muslim minorities from neighbouring countries

Does it provide citizenship to non-muslim Tamils from SriLanka? Are'nt they persecuted too? If not, why not?

⬐ deskamess

The link is not available for some. The following link [1] was working when I tried a few minutes ago.

[1] https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7s5lbp