HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

> This one’s notable in that it puts an entire passage in quotes, but it turns out the passage was not in Cheung (1983) at all—not on page 8 or anywhere else in that article—it actually came from a collection from 1998 of old Harvard Business School exam questions.

One of my pet peeves is the chain of citations that will inevitably spawn from this. No author can be bothered to go find the original source and just cite that, so this inaccurate (and since retracted) quote will end up propagating itself for decades if not centuries, with each author citing the work that they got the story from. Eventually, hundreds of years from now, someone will be crazy enough to try to work their way down the chain to track down the original, only to discover it isn't there.

For an excellent and humorous example, see CGP Grey's search for the original Tiffany: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ

⬐ dllthomas

> For an excellent and humorous example, see CGP Grey's search for the original Tiffany: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ

WHAT'S THE JOKE?

⬐ TigeriusKirk

It wasn't clear to me if the exam questions were the source or just where the author stopped tracking.

⬐ aaron695

None

⬐ Waterluvian

Likely Ignorant tech proposal to this problem:

When a paper contains an “invalid reference”, flag that paper in a database. Expose a service that allows you to share a list of references and receive any flags and the reasons. You can then more carefully scrutinize the papers you’re citing that might have referencing issues.

Bonus: display an entire reference tree and show branches with issues. Not that an issue invalidates a branch, but it might bring into question the integrity of the branch, especially if the reference in question is so key to the claims.

⬐ CrazyPyroLinux

Put it on the blockchain! Just kidding...mostly...

To see this gloriously realised, check out CGP Grey's description of Pope's feud with Thomas Hearne. Linking the full video because it's a masterpiece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ

⬐ chasil

By some strange coincidence, I had decided this week to read Capote's Breakfast at Tiffany's and then watch the film again.

I might also repeat a famous Wilde quote:

There are two ways to dislike poetry. One is to dislike it, and the other is to read Pope.

Wait till you find out about "Tiffany"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LMr5XTgeyI (CGP Grey)

(spoiler: he couldn't find out where it came from, and did this video on his research to explain more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ )

⬐ thaumasiotes

The standard of counting as "Tiffany" is strange. He's not happy with Θεοφανώ or Theophania, but he's perfectly happy to count (French) Tiphaine, Thifaine, Thiephaine, and (English) Tephany as being "obviously" the modern name. But the difference between Tephany and Theophania is down to the "Th" at the beginning. Why agonize over the difference between the very well-attested Greek Theophania and modern Tiffany if it's so clear that medieval Tephany matches the modern form? It's a better match for the Greek form!

For a really great video mostly about checking out books from a library watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEV9qoup2mQ

I found it pretty funny that hundreds of years later he unearthed an old written feud that ended up directly affecting him in a way which caused him to empathize with one of the sides.

⬐ romanhn

Thanks for this unexpected and highly enjoyable digression!

⬐ tellarin

Great notes on how the "historic record" happens and how noise gets in and propagates through it.

⬐ dane-pgp

It's a great video, but there is an aspect to his personal journey that seems a little contradictory.

He seems to have been motivated to make the video in no small part because he had felt lonely working on this project for months without being able to share his findings and frustrations with anyone. (Lockdown has probably had a similar effect on a large proportion of the population). At the end of the video, though, he thanks the community of people who like his work so much that they give him regular funding for access to behind-the-scenes footage.

Perhaps the world of YouTube content creation is so cut-throat that if he had mentioned to his backers that he was looking for information about an old poem, someone would have reverse engineered the topic of his next video and beaten him to making it, stealing all the views from his then-not-produced final product. On the other hand, maybe people appreciate his unique style and the effort he puts into videos and they would be more likely to watch his documentary series about the name "Tiffany" after seeing the copycat videos, which would act as free advertising.

I'm not a YouTuber, so I have to assume he knows more about the risks of this than I do, but if he was really struggling with his mental health for not having someone to talk with about his work, then he didn't give the impression that he had considered all the ways to mitigate that.