Hacker News Comments on
Paul Graham at Startup School 08
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All the comments and stories posted to Hacker News that reference this video.Bret Victor - Inventing on principleAlan Kay - Power of Simplicity
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⬐ whatyoucantsayFantastic list!
refering to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7K0vRUKXKc
Yesterday I had PG's Startup School 08 video[1] on the background and he spoke about them just after being a cockroach and how companies succeed not just by not being evil but by being good.Really happy for them. Great team.
I couldn't figure out the reason most hackers are negative on HN. Cool down.
I think you're right here, but the qualifier "all things being equal" can't be taken lightly. Rarely if never are "all things equal." I also don't think a shift in the market context is necessary. We already have a market place where people who feel tricked or duped will have a lower opinion of the company doing the duping. dark patterns have a bad edge to them too--very few of them, when noticed by the user, leave the user actually feeling good about how they were duped.This kinda reminds me of the talk PG gave at 2008 start up school titled "Be Good." (http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7K0vRUKXKc) He outlines many ways why it's not merely ethically appropriate to be good, but also a strategically superior approach to running a startup. Ease of use, simplicity, trustworthiness--these are important qualities of a biz's reputation, both internally and in public perception. And Dark patterns tend to harm that reputation.
Edit: Addendum--obviously there are monopolies or monopoly-like situations where reputation isn't important.
⬐ dragonwriter> I also don't think a shift in the market context is necessary.If the dark patterns empirically work, then a market context shift is necessary.
> We already have a market place where people who feel tricked or duped will have a lower opinion of the company doing the duping. dark patterns have a bad edge to them too--very few of them, when noticed by the user, leave the user actually feeling good about how they were duped.
If they had enough of a "bad edge" that they didn't actually work to increase the returns realized by a business--then they wouldn't be an issue, as there'd be no incentive to use them.
⬐ jleaderSometimes the "bad edge" effect is cumulative over time. This can lead to a new entrant to the market suddenly gaining a lot of market share, because so many people have gotten fed up with the dominant player. So maybe the dark patterns work well, until suddenly they nose-dive, because everyone's switched to the less annoying alternative.A/B testing only tells you what works today, not what's going to keep your customers satisfied in the long run.
⬐ PeterisP1) Dark patterns do empirically work, that's the whole point.2) Market won't magically shift - they work based on homo sapiens basic psychology, and that won't change so soon. However, dark patterns can (and are) reduced by making them illegal - effective consumer protection / truthful advertising laws can mitigate them. For example, if 'I agree' opt-out boxes are legally considered invalid, then it makes sense to use opt-in subscriptions; similarly for other [mis]representations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5E38frHo1U - (Steve Blank / Eric Ries - part 1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwW2Q-09g9Y - (Steve Blank / Eric Ries - part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mZUcWt2Q3M - (Steve Blank / Eric Ries - part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSk2I8tlzdA - (Steve Blank at the Startup Lessons Learned conference)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-H7TAcqGko - (Steve Blank: The Democratization of Entrepreneurship)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynQasjpBTCk - (Alexander Osterwalder speaking @ Google)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEvKo90qBns - (Eric Ries speaking @ Google)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7K0vRUKXKc - (pg at Startup School '08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNjJTgXujno - (Peter Norvig at Startup School '08)
PG discusses this at about the 5m mark in this video, using the example of curing Malaria: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7K0vRUKXKc
I remember watching a video of a talk you gave at startup school 08 and near the end during the Q&A, you said something to the effect of "we fund what people apply with, which usually ends up being some form of facebook or something to do with independent music".It seems that if the labels have positioned themselves as unfavorable toward startups to the point of making an anti-platform, that there would be demand for an independent, label-free music buying/selling experience for startups to work with. Yet the only thing I think of that comes close was the old version of thesixtyone's marketplace.
Are the startups that apply to ycombinator in this area trying to build something outside of the current music ecosystem and failing (and why)? Or is everyone just trying to work with the current system and finding that it isn't feasible/profitable?
Never heard him? Not to derive this into some "list of Paul Graham's speaks", but I really suggest to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7K0vRUKXKc. A good speak, I think.
⬐ wglbWhat an excellent presentation. Benevolence not because it is good but because it works.⬐ thunk3? 2:Make desirables
⬐ helveticaman⬐ ujjwalgSupply demand.I have read all of PG's essays and have seen some of his videos. This one is awesome. The way he uses the slides or I should say the way he doesn't uses the slides during the talk is how it should be. Whenever, I read about him and see what he is doing, it makes me wish, can I be like him 10-15 years down the line and have my own YC kind of thing in India.