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I published music on Tidal to test MQA - MQA Review

GoldenSound · Youtube · 10 HN points · 4 HN comments
HN Theater has aggregated all Hacker News stories and comments that mention GoldenSound's video "I published music on Tidal to test MQA - MQA Review".
Youtube Summary
A deep dive into MQA, and its problems.
Testing starts at 5:45

Come chat on discord: https://www.thegoldenone.co.uk
Support me on patreon and join the private telegram chat: https://www.patreon.com/goldensound
(or subscribestar) https://www.subscribestar.com/goldensound

How to test MQA's leaky filter: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62669-how-to-demonstrate-mqas-leaky-filter/
2018 RMAF MQA talk by Chris Connaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSv0lcHlawk
Archimago's MQA article: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/mqa-a-review-of-controversies-concerns-and-cautions-r701/
PS Audio vid on MQA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPfmWKjiccA
Schiit on MQA: https://www.schiit.com/news/news/why-we-wont-be-supporting-mqa#:~:text=Today%2C%20Schiit%20Audio%20announced%20that,so%20that%20they%20may%20choose
Linn on MQA: https://web.archive.org/web/20201111211105/https://www.linn.co.uk/blog/mqa-is-bad-for-music
Neil Young removes albums from TIDAL: https://neilyoungarchives.com/news/1/article?id=Tidal-Misleading-Listeners


Further reading on MQA:

GTO filter analysis: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55951-ifi-foe-fum/#comments

Benchmark Audio's statement about MQA transient shifting: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/benchmark-media-systems-la4-line-amplifier-and-dac3-b-digital-to-analog-converter

RealHD stops supporting MQA: https://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=7218

Archimago on transient smearing https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/02/musingsmeasurements-on-blurring-and-why.html

Rob Watts on digital filters: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-134#post-15968970

Benchmark on MQA: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa

Meridian has doctored tests of hi-res in the past: https://audioinvestigations.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-great-debate-amir-vs-arny.html

Filter ringing (with a link to Mans/troll audio) https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/page/699/?tab=comments#comment-983918

Aliasing vs. imaging: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/page/683/?tab=comments#comment-980885

Music aliasing distortion example: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/page/683/?tab=comments#comment-980857

Linear phase vs. Minimum phase: https://troll-audio.com/articles/linear-and-minimum-phase/

Sox settings to duplicate an MQA filter: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/37821-stereophile-series-on-mqa-technology/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-754014

JA's post showing signal aliasing: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/?do=findComment&comment=980401

mansr's original Dragonfly DAC analysis: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30572-mqa-technical-analysis/page/20/?tab=comments#comment-690307

Why MQA's digital filters blur the music: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/page/470/?tab=comments#comment-936690

A Survey of Musical Instrument Spectra to 102.4 KHz https://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm

RealHD Audio on MQA: https://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6517

Bob Stuart wanted to censor AS: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30381-mqa-is-vaporware/page/584/?tab=comments#comment-958011


References in MQA's response:


[1] 'A Hierarchical Approach for Audio Archive and Distribution', JAES Volume 67 Issue 5 pp. 258-277; May 2019. http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=20456

[2] 'The Gentle Art of Dithering', JAES Volume 67 Issue 5 pp. 278-299; May 2019.
http://www.aes.org/e‐lib/browse.cfm?elib=20457

[3] MQA Q&A Sidebar 1: https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa‐questions‐and‐answers‐sidebar‐1‐ example‐nielsen‐2l‐120‐track‐1

[4] MQA Q&A Sidebar 2: https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa‐questions‐and‐answers‐sidebar‐2‐ example‐portland‐state‐chamber‐choir

[5] MQA Sidebar 3: https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa‐questions‐and‐answers‐sidebar‐3‐example‐ portland‐state‐amazing‐grace‐audibility‐analysis

[6] Bobtalks: MQA CD https://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/mqaplayback/origami‐and‐the‐last‐mile/


0:00 - Intro
1:15 - Summary of topics
1:47 - Pre-video clarifications
3:44 - What is MQA?
5:41 - How I got test files encoded in MQA
6:57 - MQA 44.1khz vs Native 44.1khz
8:14 - MQA HiRes vs Native 88.2khz
11:11 - Reduced Dynamic Range
11:47 - Does unfolding work? (Many MQA releases are just upsampled 44.1khz)
12:41 - No Lossless on tidal if track is MQA
13:47 - MQA "Authentication" means nothing
14:30 - MQA Upsampling filter is leaky
15:33 - Filter attenuation analysis
16:54 - HiRes unfolding analysis
18:53 - Full decode analysis
19:54 - Conclusion
21:19 - My Opinion, and testing cables
25:46 - Why are manufacturers supporting MQA?
27:13 - Best way to play MQA files
27:44 - ifi GTO filter is MQA
28:56 - MQA's response
37:02 - Credits/Thank you

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Hacker News Stories and Comments

All the comments and stories posted to Hacker News that reference this video.
> a Tidal subscription (which has masters at supposedly higher quality than CDs)

Alas, this is BS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHkqWZ9jzA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf-UGPXpqJ4

vzidex
It might very well be the DAC doing the work then, or maybe the placebo effect is just making me pay more attention to music I first heard years ago and I'm picking up more :)

Thanks for the information though, I'll do some A/B testing to see if it makes any difference to me.

dehrmann
Placebo effect disproves Nyquist–Shannon Theorem.
redisman
Just the Hifi level is probably enough for almost any system. I also noticed a huge difference coming from YouTube and Spotify on the Hifi setting in Tidal. I didn’t bother with Master as my ears aren’t that magical
It's not like Tidal is good either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc
turtlebits
Tidal offers FLAC. I don't completely understand the associated formats via their quality settings, but definitely have downloaded FLAC when caching content to a device.
SSLy
Alright, yes, it uses the container, but files that are scrambled with MQA are worse quality than CD-rips. Even if no MQA decoding is involved.
Just to add to this comment, the video breakdowns I've watched on MQA are interesting listens even as someone who doesn't use Tidal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRjsu9-Vznc -- Critque of MQA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwZ5hDzQ5Jg -- in defense of MQA

At the end of the day, people should listen to what they think sounds good (is this an opinion?). If a placebo makes someone enjoy something more, is it really a placebo? If someone can't tell the difference between low quality recordings and high quality recordings, why should they go through the trouble of sourcing the high quality stuff.

It's so easy to lose track of the subjective nature of audio in all of the objective details.

formerly_proven
That's not really the point here - if someone says "I like how this sounds with (MQA artifacts | tube distortions | +20 dB bass)", that's perfectly fine and not something many if any people would argue with.
ivraatiems
That's fine, but it's not fine to claim MQA is lossless or represents the original lossless file.
Apr 21, 2021 · 4 points, 1 comments · submitted by _joel
PhilKunz
yeah... either its lossless or its not.
Apr 18, 2021 · 4 points, 0 comments · submitted by dtx1
Apr 16, 2021 · 2 points, 0 comments · submitted by jensgk
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