HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

⬐ graycat

For the movie, I objected to three things:

(1) For the US loss at Kasserine Pass, the movie has Patton and Bradley blame poor discipline of the troops. Another view is that the German leadership set and baited a trap, and the US leadership -- General Fredendall -- responded to the bait and ordered the US troops into the trap where the Germans devastated the US troops and created the massive US loss. The US troops had enough "discipline" to advance as ordered and to fight and die in the trap.

Net, I would claim that the main cause of the US loss was the poor leadership of Fredendall and not anything about the "discipline" of the US troops.

(2) The movie mentions that Patton "trained" his troops, but except for some points about discipline, e.g., uniforms, there were no details on the "training". So, if wanted to learn more about Patton's leadership, e.g., as a foundation for his successes, then would want more about the "training".

(3) An important part of the Allied victory at Normandy and in France generally was their victory at the Falaise pocket. There Patton was doing well closing the pocket, but Monty ordered Patton back, and many Germans escaped east. The movie omitted the battle of the Falaise pocket.

⬐ jleyank

Remember, also, the movie was “advised” by Bradley so he looks better and Patton looks worse. Discipline is more than just neat clothes - it’s remembering to do the boring or difficult things that reflects one training or doctrine.

And it’s not a documentary and I can’t imagine people going to a normal movie wanting to watch commentary on how to deploy infantry/tank teams, choose ground or the strengths/weaknesses of separating divisions vs. keeping them together. There are a number of good books that discuss this.

⬐ eesmith

And another commentary by Cynical Historian, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kAZMZtPxZQ .

⬐ causi

From the comments: the two men talking about the film Patton do not seem to realize it was based on the book Patton: Ordeal and Triumph by Ladislas Farago

That seems like an incredible research failure, considering it's in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article. If they can't be bothered to do such basic research, is there any chance their opinions are worth the time to listen?