HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

⬐ TimSchumann

Great video, but this should probably have a 2017 in the title.

⬐ yokoprime

I think he later on added a headphone jack to the same phone i built in this video. It was just after all the brouhaha about Apple / Samsung et al removing it.

⬐ latchkey

More recent: folding iphone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X7OmGvgVXg

⬐ G3rn0ti

Another cool episode is where he upgrades a 16GB iPhone to 128GB by soldering a larger flash chip onto the board:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHP-OPXK2ig

⬐ tony-allan

2017 iPhone 6S

⬐ connectsnk

How did they download iOS on to the phone. Is it pre-embedded in the motherboard

⬐ kube-system

They bought a used board that came out of a working iPhone.

⬐ molbioguy

Maybe Gibson missed the mark in setting Neuromancer in Chiba City?

⬐ molbioguy

I think it's remarkable that all those parts and sophisticated procedures/repairs are available in local markets.

⬐ sfifs

To be fair to Gibson, the Shemzhen SEZ had just about been started when he wrote Neuromancer. As I understand it Japan at that time had an underground electronics scene in Tokyo - though of course nothing to the scale of Huaqiangbei.

I wonder if the market is still functional post Covid. Been a few years since i visited it. Definitely one of the wonders of the post modern world.

⬐ jayski

i saw this video and his other ones. theyre well made, interesting and fun. but spoiler alert, he just bought all the parts and put them together.

I do think it's fair for Apple to say, "Hey, we can't ensure this device is properly repaired unless we are the ones to repair it." Maybe some sort of "Apple-certified repair place" program... I think that exists today. I don't think Apple should be forced to sell raw parts; it's not part of their business model. You're free to buy more modular hardware... things you can easily repair. That's a selling point, right? But Apple should be free to do business however they want to do business. You're free not to buy Apple products, but you shouldn't be free, as a consumer, to insist they make schematics and parts available. You can choose to support companies that sell parts if you want! (=

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA - seems about as good as you can hope for. Pretty sure Apple isn't keen on "DIY" for their brand.

You addressed the first question, but I popped in to bring up this neat video I came across a few years back regarding the second question.

How about this guy, who "built a like-new (but really refurbished) iPhone 6S 16GB entirely from parts purchased from the public cell phone parts markets in Huaqiangbei."? :D

https://strangeparts.com/how-i-made-my-own-iphone-in-china/

Making-of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA

This is not so easy. The Surface Books are made with a number of snap together modules, via fine cable runs and multi-pin connectors. Each part is made with care and subjected to detailed tests, that include a term of power-on burn in for the major parts with infra-red smart vision that looks for any hot spots (that might lead to failure). Then they are assembled with in progress tests at some points until the final productis made and it is tested after they add the SSD with all the operating system installed. There are assorted areas partitioned on the SSD that might hold an OS recovery partition, as well as other software provided by others as choice ware (since so many people like this so called bloatware not installed). Then it will be placed on a burn-in rack at a higher temperatrure than room temp and some sort of test program will be run on a recurrent basis. Those that pass are packed and shipped, those that fail are analyzed for faults and any faulty part replaced and it is re-tested. A lemon with recurrent faults will probably be gutted to find the part with an enduring fault. Once in the field, it is rare for part level test and repair to be done. Those boards are marked as scrap with dye?? and sold in the scrap boards auction in schenzen. Buyers buy these boards and perform some analysis of them, or simply remove certain high value parts and sell them to other repris shops. Often many parts are tossed because these parts lack detailed information on them abd are not worth salvage. There are board maps online, so higher value parts like inductors, crystals, GPS etc have known locations and are removed and segregated for sale to hobby shops etc.

https://hackernoon.com/the-gladiator-pit-of-hardware-startup...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA&feature=youtu.be...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUQzAhOVj70

Slightly different Point of view: HW needs infrastructure.

It needs Packages, materials, PCB houses etc ideally all near by, with good transportation networks, etc. That was what ShenZhen was good at. It took very low cost labors and supported government and a lot time to build up.

Take a look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA on how to build IPhone from parts bought in ShenZhen public market to see the supported systems needed for HW. You can imagine how much easier and faster to prototype/build HW (drone, robots, etc) in ShenZhen as compare to anywhere else in the world (for now).

As the labor cost goes up in ShenZhen / China, the significant advantages are gone. That's why China is trying to move up via Tech/IP, etc.

Same development processes happened in Japan, Korea, Taiwan for the past 40-50 years. All of them start with unskilled Textile -> toy assembly -> Electonic PCB assembly -> PCB Design -> Simple Asic / Systems-> Complex ASIC / Complex Systems.

As they move up the food chain, they all "clone / steal / borrow / learn" ip from more developed nations.

It is also repeating the process 150 years ago where UK invented the Train/Rail system and US just scaled/improved to much bigger system.

History just keep repeating.

⬐ NicoJuicy

Self employed = easier to start software company, yes.

But in the context of outsourcing, dropping a company ( which I summarized infrastructure with: "drop company"), hardware is a lot easier.

You do have a lot to do initially, but big companies have their "procedure". Follow the procedure and everything could be almost right initially.

Software projects can't expand like that "by the book".

Every extra ( new) employee on a project could even move the finish of it 6 months further.

You may enjoy this video where a guy goes to Shenzen and tries to build an iPhone 6s from parts. He claims it cost $300. Technically he spent a little over $600 because he broke a lot of parts and bought the wrong parts in the process, but if everything went perfectly it would be about $300. I think this was created back when the 6s was the current model.

$300 claim https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KucQDXnKws

build video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA

⬐ harveynick

I love stuff like this, but I think he left out a fairly important number: the amount of time he spent making it, and the $ value he'd put on that time.

⬐ Consultant32452

I assume that most people asking this question of how much it costs to make an iPhone are asking in the context of a hobby project. In the context of a hobby project, at least for me, the time spent doing something I enjoy is a benefit, not a cost.

⬐ someonenice

When making a single phone, this effort counts (assume $20K). Once he is ready for mass production, then this effort is negligible (divide the $20K among 100K phones) .

⬐ harveynick

Ye-es... but I'd argue that's not the proposition of the video. The claim is "I made an iPhone for $300", but the reality id more like "I made an iPhone for $300 of useful spend, $700 of wasted spend and $20,000 worth of my time".

The watcher might be tempted to take away "I can make an iPhone for $300," but actually it's more like "I can make an iPhone for $300 and ~$5,000 of my time".

Obviously the "$5,000 worth of my time" is actually the fun part fro some viewers. If you're the right kind of maker it might even be worth $5,000 to you.

⬐ an4rchy

This was fascinating, makes me want to actually try and build a frankenstein phone. Thank you for posting!

⬐ agumonkey

I find it funny that this is a bit like the clockmaker hobbyist of 2010

From the guy who built his own iPhone from spare parts in China:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA

On the other hand you can make a full iPhone by buying each of the components if you know where to find them (disclaimer: I've met Scott before):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA

Watching how WeChat is used in China was very eye-opening: https://youtu.be/leFuF-zoVzA?t=546

⬐ Veratyr

Blog post for those who prefer text to video: https://strangeparts.com/how-i-made-my-own-iphone-in-china/

⬐ None

None

⬐ tag2

Really well edited video. Shenzen seems like a crazy awesome place. One thing I noticed was how he would never haggle on the price. He would always accept straight up say yep ok. Either the prices were really good...or being an American he's not so used to the idea of having to haggle the price (or maybe he felt order size was too small to warrant a haggle). However when in Asia always and negotiate, otherwise you're just increasing the prices for the rest of the expats :)

⬐ johanj

He has commented on that saying that it isn't very common in the electronics markets, particularly for one-offs or low volume. Apparently you can only really start haggling once you're buying 100+ of something.

⬐ elastic_church

a friend in the industry will negotiate for you so that you can get volume prices for one-offs

⬐ wolly

This isn't your normal Asian market. Most of us are happy that we can even make our clumsy attempts at buying sample quantities without speaking the language nor having a local business. There's little evidence of a "foreigner tax" in effect, if anything you're getting better prices and service because you're a curiosity.

⬐ iiv

When purchasing electronics haggling isn't really very common. The haggling comes when you buy in bulk. But you're right, if you buy things on a market in Asia; haggle!

⬐ da02

Are there other consequences? For example: will people think you are gullible and ready to be taken advantaged if you don't haggle?

⬐ soperj

Same here though for things like furniture.

⬐ SexyCyborg

No- under these circumstances you don't haggle. They mostly sell quantity to people they know, they are stopping real business to be polite and do him a favor. Likewise, if you buy 5 switches in SEG, it's going to be like $2 and it's just not the time for it. Source- Shenzhen local.

⬐ Taniwha

yes exactly - if you're going to Shenzhen figure out which buildings will sell you 10 and which are really there to sell you 10,000, the market prices to you are already cheaper than what you're used to for most stuff anyway.

If you do need 10,000 you're probably buying reels anyway, there are places that will sell you those, and if you really are manufacturing get a local sourcing agent to help you they will know who sells reliable stuff at a good price

⬐ nsxwolf

I've tried to fix the screen on an iPad and an iPhone. In both cases, I destroyed a ribbon cable connector and rendered the devices useless. I tried to follow the instructions, I tried to use proper tools and go as slowly as possible, and in both cases, the delicate surface mount connectors just turned into powder and flaked right off the board.

⬐ ericabiz

Just FYI, even if you ripped a pin on the FPC (the connector on the logic board), your devices are still repairable. Board-level repair is becoming more common these days, and there are plenty of people all over the world who can replace FPCs on your board.

⬐ aphextron

You must be doing something wrong. I have had my original iPhone 5 since release in 2013. Ive replaced essentailly every part in the phone but the mainboard. I just bought a parts phone on ebay for $20 and completely replaced the digitizer. Battery replacements are $5 and take two minutes. Ive even replaced the entire lightning port assembly for 7$ in parts and an hour of time. Its the most modular easily repaired phone Ive ever owned. Granted though, this is the original iPhone 5. All the newer phones with Touch ID and force touch digitizers are more expensive/complicated. But the notion that Apple phones are not repairable is just false.

⬐ mikestew

I've repaired iPhone 5's, no problem. I've repaired the screen on a 6 and swore I'd never attempt such a thing again. Too many fiddly, delicate parts and screen glass that's bonded to the LCD. If nothing else I'd buy the whole screen and not just the glass. But the fiddly rest of it still puts me off trying again.

⬐ lucaspiller

5 minutes to replace the battery? When I replaced the battery on my iPhone 5S (maybe it's a lot harder?) it took maybe an hour in total. The biggest issue I had was with the glue holding the old battery in. I used a hair dryer to heat up the back of the phone so it was hot to touch, but even so it still took a lot of prying - the old battery was very deformed by the time I got it free.

On a side note, iPhones are really easy to get parts for. I had the digitiser fail on a cheap no-name Android tablet, and as far as I can tell you can't get replacement parts for it.

⬐ dmd

> Ive replaced essentailly every part in the phone but the mainboard

For fun? Or what? I have several relatives who still have iPhone 4 and 5 (and one with a 3!), and none of them have replaced any components. Why would you need to?

⬐ aphextron

I've gone through 2 screens and a battery. Also the connectors on the lightning port tend to corrode to the point where it has trouble charging.

⬐ nsxwolf

I just have very bad luck when things get small. I was so proud of myself when I got all that broken iPad glass off cleanly. Then that happened and it was a really dark moment for me.

Currently I'm dealing with an out of warranty Apple Watch where the screen just went and fell right off, and apparently you cannot buy the glue strips for it unless you buy the whole screen. Apple figured out how to stop people from getting glue!

⬐ iamacynic

they probably bought the company that produces the glue.

⬐ skibble

As a side note: this issue happened to some early Apple watches (basically the glue didn't cure properly, I think?). Since it's a sorta known issue, you might be able to get it fixed for free, even though it's out of warranty.

Here's a tweet from John Gruber of popular Apple blog Daring Fireball, who had the same thing happen to his wife's watch: https://twitter.com/gruber/status/783016045481033729?lang=en

⬐ nsxwolf

Yeah I went through multiple phone calls and an unpleasant store visit and mentioned the people online and they did jack all for me. They want $249 and that's that. They didn't care about my 6 figures of lifetime Apple purchases.

⬐ sergiotapia

For those curious and don't want to watch the entire video: He uses an iphone backplate, three other parts (touch id etc), and the logic board. So he's using Apple OS.

⬐ cr0sh

Ah - ok, this explains it. I didn't watch the video, and I had it in my mind that he custom built a phone (and they were just using the term as a headline grab). I was trying to figure out how/where he got a 4G module.

⬐ idank

Makes me wish you could buy a kit and assemble your own phone. We need someone like Arduino to come along for this kind of tech. Would be awesome to just pick up my old and faithful Hakko and solder some sensor to a phone.

⬐ simonmales

Fairphone offer the reverse. A phone that is designed to be repaired by the end user.

⬐ khedoros1

Depending on what you're thinking of when you say "phone", you can do that. 3G modem, controller (either a microcontroller like Arduino or one of the smaller Linux-based ARM computers), various LCD options, and either touch or buttons for input. People have built variations on that.

Here's an example using a Raspberry Pi, touchscreen, and custom-written UI: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/tytelli-a-diy-smartphone/

⬐ digi_owl

Do wonder how it would look if we replaced the B with that new Zero W.

⬐ khedoros1

Put a smaller GPIO connection on the screen, and you could probably make it 1/3 the thickness of the original one. Still much more powerful than my first Android phone, and you could set it up with much quicker software. Actually getting to feature parity even with most feature phones would take some serious work, though.

⬐ None

None

⬐ fest

A guy in local hackerspace is building just that: https://hackaday.io/project/19035-zerophone-a-raspberry-pi-s...

⬐ chirau

On top of that 300, add R&D costs, marketing, assembly and shipping and you could very well justify the hefty price we pay for the iPhone.

I am actually surprised it cost this much to make custom.

⬐ justboxing

Yep. In the video comments, he says he spent well over $1000. Justifies the $300 price tag by stating that he didn't need the $700+ worth of parts and tools he purchased.

> Strange Parts 4 hours ago

> Thanks for subscribing! I spent well over $1000, but a lot of that was parts and tools I didn't end up needing. I'd say it's probably around $300 worth of parts in the actual phone.

Source: Direct link to comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFuF-zoVzA&lc=z13bd1eposzxs...

⬐ rtkwe

The extra parts cost was from a dead end where he was going to attempt to populate a bare PCB with the various chips etc. Eventually he found someone that told him just how many boards he'd have to make before he'd get a working board trying to do it by hand.

⬐ vacri

Apple's $100+ billion in cash suggests that there's quite a bit of fat in the price for the iPhone.

⬐ 2muchcoffeeman

He said that some of the parts are refurbished.

So $300 is not really the cost of making them right?

Apple made a phone from scratch, sold it, someone got the parts and refurbished them to on sell them.

So you'd expect the price to be much lower? What's the original cost?

⬐ microcolonel

For what it's worth, he did pay for almost all of the assembly. He bought an assembled mainboard, and paid about 70 bucks for the assembly on the screen (in addition to what he already paid for parts).

⬐ namlem

Those are genuine refurbished iPhone parts. If he were making an Android phone he could have done it for much less.

⬐ Taniwha

Well it doesn't really .. that's what it cost Scotty doing it the way he did. He was making a video to highlight that phones live on after you throw them away. He probably wasn't trying to make a profit, he was trying to make an interesting movie.

If you visit the markets where he's buying you'll find a virtual disassembly line breaking down phones into component parts (to logic boards if they still work, and chips if they don't) followed by an assembly line of people making 'new' phones from those parts. The thing is that there are people in the "dodgy cell phone market" (people call it that) who are making a good living (by local norms) building iPhones, sometimes from scratch with recycled parts

⬐ Animats

All those people and all that parts infrastructure, just to repair and recycle one brand of phones. Phone repair training school with posters of iPhone boards on the wall. All those shops selling phone parts. All that specialized equipment for servicing them. I like the "bubble removing" machine, a heated vacuum chamber. It looks like mid 20th century automotive, when there were corners with four gas stations that actually could fix cars, and many automotive machine shops.

Why should phones break? It's not like they can't be made much tougher.[1] The real question is, why do people put up with such fragile phones? Is this an interim stage of the technology? Does this stop when iPhone N+1 comes out and the reaction is "yawn?"

So what does all that Shentzen parts retail look like when you're building something new? Can you go into those buildings with a bill of materials and come out ready to load your pick and place machine? Can you get boards fabbed one-off while you wait? Or is it all about repair and simple mods?

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8

⬐ pjc50

> why do people put up with such fragile phones?

I suspect it's due to the short effective lifetime due to obsolescence.

Ruggedised phones and cases are already available. The average person doesn't mind much, although there's strong nostalgia for the indestructible era of early Nokias.

The vertically integrated nature of the industry means you have to choose one of Apple or Android; and if you choose Apple, you're stuck with whatever products they choose to offer.

⬐ synicalx

> The real question is, why do people put up with such fragile phones?

It's technology, the average punter doesn't give it a second thought beyond "What does this device do?".

⬐ scottyallen

Scotty here, the dude that made the video. I'm not sure I can answer the first set of questions about why phones are fragile. I think it probably has something to do with consumer expectations/tastes around look and size of phones though.

But I can give you some answers for your second set of questions.

> So what does all that Shentzen parts retail look like when you're building something new?

The markets originally started as wholesale components and tools markets to service the electronics factories in Shenzhen, which make a significant fraction of the worlds electronics, particularly commodity electronics. So it actually mostly caters to people building new things, versus repair. But I didn't show any of that in the video. My understanding is that the cell phone repair markets are comparatively much newer, and obviously cater much less to large scale production of new goods.

> Can you go into those buildings with a bill of materials and come out ready to load your pick and place machine?

Yes, absolutely. There are multiple buildings of distributers that do nothing but sell components on reels to load in pick and place machines. You can even buy a pick and place machine there if you need.

> Can you get boards fabbed one-off while you wait?

Not quite while you wait. There are a bunch of booths in the markets advertising these sorts of services though. I think the fastest on the PCB fab itself (without assembling any components on it) is 12-hour turn time, and that's pushing it a bit. 24-hour turn time expedited but pretty standard, and 3-4 days is generally the non-expedited standard for the board house I've used. Sometimes a bit longer if they're really busy. A courier on a motorcycle will bring it to your door.

> Or is it all about repair and simple mods?

The cell phone markets are mainly about repair/refurbishing and simple mods, as far as I can tell. But I don't fully know - there's still a ton more for me to learn. I still feel like I'm barely scratching the surface here.

⬐ marak830

Reading your replies(can't watch the video, I'm at work - chef here), really makes me wish I was back coding. Which would give me time to do things like this! Do you have a blog or is this a one off?

Edit: found the link lower :-)

⬐ Abishek_Muthian

So IFixit iPhone repair scores are invalid if you live in Shenzhen.

⬐ gambiting

They are usually invalid if you have the right tools and know what you are doing, but they are usually based off an assumption that your average person has a screwdriver and a hair dryer and nothing else. Anything that requires a soldering iron to replace is pretty much a 1/10, even if it's a really simple fix that can be done after looking up some videos on youtube.

⬐ namuol

Ha! I met Scotty (the man featured in this video) in Bali, Indonesia about 1.5 years ago. We wound up crossing paths a few more times at a hackerspace after I moved to SF. As you can imagine, he's an incredibly focused but personable guy. Hope to see more videos like this!

⬐ reustle

I think a lot of us met him there :)

⬐ franciscop

I see few Hacker Paradise alumni are around here! (:

⬐ cr0sh

I haven't watched the video - but I'm curious where and how he got a 4G LTE module cheaply. I've never found one via Ali Express or TaoBao, but maybe I didn't use the right keywords (or maybe they aren't available as modules?). The best I've been able to find are 3G modules; the 4G ones I have found (from one or two US suppliers) tended to be extremely expensive.

EDIT: NVM all - downthread it was explained what this guy did, and how he didn't go true DIY on the whole thing. So no special 4G module needed.

⬐ curiousgal

Going full DIY would be nearly impossible if he wants to get iOS up and running, at least I assume so.

⬐ None

None

⬐ bjackman

Aside from your edit: I have heard (but cannot back up) that there are sometimes things you can buy in person in Shenzhen but not on Taobao. It's hard to believe though.

⬐ SexyCyborg

Not a lot, usually what happens if it's grey to sell it there are special keywords used or you just ask the TB store owner on PM.

⬐ ben174

Great experiment, and it looks like a lot of fun. But to be practical, the amount of time + effort + risk required to pull this of would offset any amount of money saved.

⬐ zuck9

What's the risk?

⬐ sja

Presumably the risk of screwing up and needing to repurchase certain parts and/or spend more time creating it.

⬐ 0x0

I don't know, is it possible that activating iOS might be rejected because the logic board serial number is blacklisted by Apple for any number of reasons?

⬐ ben174

Risk of buying a useless or counterfeit part that doesn't end up working in his build.

⬐ strictnein

His $5 battery exploding

⬐ superplussed

The monetization made off of Youtube should offset all of that and then some.

⬐ bspn

Yeah, I can imagine him turning this into something similar to the "What's Inside" Family" where the goal isn't so much cost-saving vs exploring how things are made.

⬐ oldgun

Moral of the story is not how cheap YOU can build YOUR phone by $300, but how cheap Chinese electronic parts could mean to the competition and innovation in the whole electronic industry.

My personal opinion (not necessarily correct): it means that electronic industry could no longer only compete on low prices but newer designs and newer technologies, for better or worse, because Shenzhen, China can always catch up with your price fast with its astonishingly cheap parts.

⬐ megablast

> but how cheap Chinese electronic parts could mean to the competition and innovation in the whole electronic industry.

There are already plenty of cheap Chinese phones you can buy. Even their flagship phones with top of the line specs are half price. They just don't support all overseas bands yet.

⬐ vit05

Amazing how they use WeChat for everything and how someone's word has value in the negotiations. They hardly use paper, receipts.

⬐ philliphaydon

People run their entire businesses on WeChat. It's rather amazing the trust people have in it. Apparently it's got an estimated value of 80 billion.

⬐ nodesocket

A fun hobby and project, but I'm guessing nearly all those parts are knock offs and of very cheap quality.

⬐ iamdave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

Really interesting documentary from Wired that tangentially touches on this mentality.

⬐ jjbiotech

Because quality increases when Apple repackages Chinese components in a shiny white case.

⬐ None

None

⬐ esmi

Definitely.

Apple should add many QA steps filtering out the vast majority of bad parts. First there would be incoming QA on any received shipments. And any well run assembly line contains many check steps to make sure the unit has good constituent parts. This way you don't burn good parts farther down the line on a unit that was never going to pass. Then there is out going inspection and burn in testing.

All that testing increases overall quality and value.

⬐ jjbiotech

QA/QC isn't exclusive to large companies. DIY hobbyists can do the exact same thing.

⬐ None

None

⬐ esmi

In theory that's possible true but in practice on an iPhone I highly doubt a DIY can do "the exact same thing". For one there are important ports we can't access, like JTAG testing the SOC. And there is a whole other factory OS which we have no idea what it does and why.

⬐ lacampbell

Nail on the head. Some people have a very naive view of manufacturing, QC and supply chains.

⬐ strictnein

Yeah, found this amusing from the write up:

> Battery – These are everywhere, and _really_ cheap. Like $5 USD cheap. No clue if it’s real, but I was told it is, and it looks like it is.

⬐ semi-extrinsic

Given the large amount of iPhones that get smashed and then sent to recycling (in Shenzhen) loong before the battery is near EoL, my guess is these are likely genuine, used Apple batteries.

⬐ chipset

If you read his blog post he mentions that the logic board is recycled and he thinks that alot of iphone 6 parts come from recycled/broken phones.

quote from the blog about the logic board: "The one I bought is refurbished/repaired, almost undoubtedly from a real, legitimately purchased phone made by Apple that was recycled at some point."

⬐ robjan

A lot of phones stolen in the west are laundered just south of the border here in Hong Kong.

⬐ kiallmacinnes

There are very few YouTube videos that I particularly enjoy watching, this was one of them.

Interesting topic, well filmed given the market circumstances, clear audio, and well edited.. and it definitely didn't hurt that I'm currently learning how to design and build electronics from scratch as a hobby ;)

⬐ beautifulfreak

You might like this video about Shenzhen too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGJ5cZnoodY

⬐ seltzered_

Somewhat reminded me of the fairphone documentary which follows someone trying to build a phone business (i.e. Talking with suppliers/factories/etc.): https://youtu.be/7C-VTPJxWlw

⬐ singletoon

One of the very best documentaries I 've ever watched. My most favorite part on describing modern Chinese culture : the need to replace the logic board, and the seller's reaction : 'legit'. In China people still are, indeed, very honorable.

⬐ dazhbog

As a foreigner living in SZ for the past few years, and literally 3 minutes away from the markets, I have to say, well done Scotty for capturing the mess and awesomeness of Huaqiang Bei. Shame that the markets won't stay like this for long though :(

⬐ willhslade

Why not?

⬐ dazhbog

Because rent prices are going up in huaqiang bei, and the average seller selling passives or other electronic parts cant sell enough to pay the rent.

Already there are more and more malls and fashion shops slowly appearing in the area, and landlords will be more and more willing to replace sellers selling resistors over a fancy fashion shop paying double or triple for that space.

⬐ overcast

This is hilariously awesome.

⬐ therobot24

he looks so tired at the end of it, the video is well edited too, where he'll skip over what's probably long hours and tedious failures with small or sped up clips

⬐ 2bluesc

With a 2-4x standard margin mark-up he hits the price point of a new retail iPhone. Minus his time and Apple support of course. :)

⬐ sssilver

also R&D

⬐ redial

And marketing.

⬐ vacri

What items have a standard wholesale cost of 25% retail?

⬐ None

None

⬐ None

None

⬐ hexagonsun

awesome video. inspiring, when you finally turned it on... that feeling must've been surreal!

⬐ nsxwolf

How many of these parts are genuine? Many of the parts are so specific to the iPhone they can't be generic off the shelf components. Some seem impossible to knock off like the SoC or the touch sensors.

If you find a genuine part, that works, is it stolen? Some aesthetic problem? Some defect that doesn't quite render it unusable?

⬐ chipset

He writes on he's blog that he thinks a lot of parts are recycled

You might wonder why I chose to make an iPhone 6s and not an iPhone 7. I had two reasons...

However, the other reason, which turned out to be far more important, is that iPhone 7 parts are pretty hard to come by in the markets. It’s not totally clear why this is, but I have some ideas. A lot of the parts come from recycled/broken phones, and so it would make sense that there just isn’t that much supply yet.

https://strangeparts.com/how-i-made-my-own-iphone-in-china/

⬐ bspn

He seems to think a lot of the parts are refurbished from original iPhones, with a mix I imagine of pretty good copies. I've bought some non-OEM replacement parts for Android phones and the copies have been pretty phenomenal, so I'm not sure where the mix falls.

I had to laugh at the hand-drawn logos on the kiosk of the guys who owned the 'Remove Bubble Machine'.

⬐ learntofly

Hey: Don't work in IT but do play a lot in it, I'm probably an atypical HN reader being "outside of the bubble" but have always wished I had pursued a career in IT.. Anyway..

As a sideline to my daily job that pays national average I spent a couple of years repairing iPhones for friends, family and colleagues, mainly screen replacement which are trivial after a few, but also battery / switch / button / port replacements which are also trivial but often require a small insight into the mechanics of the part as differing screw lengths, different torquing forces etc can Stop power buttons depressing smoothly, all the way down to minor board level repair with (single SMT component replacements, a few BGA REFLOWS { which have a relatively low success rate with only a hot air station }).

The biggest tips I would give to anyone who wants to perform trivial repairs such as battery replacements is to buy a quality set of screwdrivers (PH000, PH00, pentalobe for iPhone, flathead that will be used 2 or 3 times per board) an openesesame type pry tool, a rigid pry tool (never lever against the board, always the side of the case and then with care)' a cheap suction device to remove the screen, a spare set of screws for your phone (you will lose screws with quite a frequency). Apart from that buy some E6000 glue with small applicator nozzle, some quality superglue (sometimes it's needed), small amounts of Methy Ethyl Ketone (MEK) solvent as well as 99.9% Isopropyl Acohol (IPA is often mixed 70/30 with water for medical purposes, don't use this).

Always keep your screen away from the solvents, MEK will dissolve even the most stubborn glue on the battery, IPA Should be used with a cotton bud (Q-Tip for the Americans?) to lightly clean both male and female FPC connectors prior to replacement, let the solvents dry before putting your screen close.

Apply a small amount if E6000 to everything that's meant to already have adhesive pads on, and with regard to screen replacements the FPCS for then LCD, digitiser, screen auxiliaries (earpiece, front camera) has a metal cover which keeps everything secure, one or two of the screws is a fraction of a mm shorter than another, put the longer one in the shorter hole and you get a BSOD where you have cut screwed through a layer of PCB to the next and broken its trace.

The biggest watch out is that spare parts come in 3 categories, reused from original iPhone, generally superior, "OEM" grade (thought strictly they probably aren't OEM, but they are superior grade) and generic. Try to avoid the generic, often the original/OEM are a few £/$ more expensive but when you've spend an hour stripping a phone and installing a part only for it to not work or to have a partial defect, you will wish you bought quality (anyone remember the black iPhone 4 with the proximity/ambient light sensor from hell, until you used a genuine part that had a polarised film and small foam gasket that stopped ambient light creeping in from the backlight?

⬐ scottyallen

Hi, Scotty here - the guy that made the video. bspn pretty much nails it. I don't really know for certain, but I think a lot of the parts are used/refurbished from original iPhones, with a couple parts that are really good copies mixed in. Everything is pretty top notch quality as far as I can tell though.

And the screen repair booth art is totally legit. As is their workbench organization scheme.

⬐ bspn

Hi Scotty - awesome video! Do you plan on doing any more builds?

⬐ scottyallen

Yes, absolutely! More videos are on the way.

⬐ aphextron

I stay far away from non OEM stuff when repairing iPhones. You can get cracked screen and iCloud locked parts phones on ebay for dirt cheap. Everything but the mainboard is usable.

⬐ f311a

How much fully refurbished iPhone 6S will cost here?

⬐ formula_ninguna

how much money did it cost to make this phone?

⬐ esMazer

pretty cool!! more like buying and assembling an iphone from parts tough

⬐ Taniwha

He did attempt to build a logic board - there a short montage of his frustration trying to do so, and an interview with a guy who teaches the locals how to build them - I've got a lot of experience soldering at that level, I regularly work under a microscope, and I'd avoid trying to solder the really fine caps (more like dust) on those boards

⬐ overcast

Was there something else implied?

⬐ jessaustin

No kidding I didn't see any mining or refining of rare earths here...

⬐ bitmapbrother

The video should have included the costs for the components as he purchased them as it constantly left me wondering.

⬐ rtkwe

He answered in a comment. It was about 300 USD in parts but he's not sure because he'd spent a lot of money gearing up to try to populate a bare logic board pcb by hand before someone talked him out of it.

⬐ neotek

He said on reddit he spent about $1000 all up including the tools required.

⬐ formula_ninguna

then it's more expensive than buying a new one.

⬐ rtkwe

Yeah but as I said a lot of those tools were for populating a bare logic board though that he didn't end up doing because a repair shop told him he could expect to waste 4+ boards before making on that worked so I don't really think that's part of the cost of the phone since they weren't used in the final product or making it.

⬐ None

None

⬐ andoon

You can buy refurbished iPhones from AliExpress that more or less are the same: made from parts from several iPhones put together.

⬐ chrisan

Sure, but where is the adventure or challenge in that?

⬐ andoon

Yeah yeah. What I mean to say is that someone "creating" a new iphone from the parts of a dozen iphones is nothing new.

⬐ ruleabidinguser

Really can't stand this style of video.

⬐ jimmies

I really can't stand the style of this comment. You didn't even to bother why you don't like it. Why bother commenting, then?

⬐ ruleabidinguser

I konw there are others who feel the same, those are the only people im interested in.

⬐ throwaway000002

"I'm really impressed by Apple's engineering. It's so easy to repair and recycle these phones. I've gotta think that Apple's really proud that their phones don't really end up in landfills."

He then adds, "But there's also credit due to the many thousands of people here who have figured out how to turn trash like this [shows mangled screen assembly] back into beautiful working phones."

Dear friends in Shenzhen, not all Westerner's are as shallow and fantastically, well, douchey as this asshole. We praise you for your ingenuity and unwavering work ethic. Thank you.

⬐ neotek

Nothing he said came across as shallow or douchey whatsoever. You, on the other hand...

⬐ gberger

I do not understand your comment, what does the author say that makes him a shallow douche?

⬐ petermcnister25

Calling "shallow" the OP but also calling all people in Shenzhen your friends ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The 1st person face is a bit shocking, and he does seem a bit naive at some points, but from that to call Scotty Allen "shallow and fantastically douchey asshole" is totally uncalled for.

⬐ SexyCyborg

As a Shenzhen local, I'd consider this video one of very few that present a 100% accurate view of the local hardware and market culture. It's very well done and everything he says is correct and that's unusual.

⬐ benliong78

I'd say the same as someone who lives in Hong Kong and travels to Shenzhen with some frequency.

With one caveat, those folks selling parts definitely treats me with a lot less friendliness than they do with foreign buyers, especially when you're buying just one.

There are also varying level of quality when buying parts, especially batteries and screens. It's hard for repair shops in the area to charge higher prices for better parts, so there's definitely a huge market for screens that's slightly mis-calibrated, has a non-noticeable dead pixel and such. Customers in the area generally care less about those kind of quality.

⬐ scottyallen

> With one caveat, those folks selling parts definitely treats me with a lot less friendliness than they do with foreign buyers, especially when you're buying just one.

Yeah, that really sucks. There's definitely a lot of pretty apparent white privilege here, which I try to be really aware of and not take unfair advantage of. But it can be tricky to navigate at times.

⬐ tertansa

Wow, like the other posters, I was impressed with your accurate portrayal of Shenzhen.

But I do have to say this comment surprises me even more as many of the expats I've met are either blind to or aren't willing to admit there is white privilege there (and other parts of Asia).

I'm really glad there are people like you as our "ambassadors."

⬐ SexyCyborg

>Yeah, that really sucks. There's definitely a lot of pretty apparent white privilege here, which I try to be really aware of and not take unfair advantage of. But it can be tricky to navigate at times.

Trust me- they treat me better than they treat you:P There are other cases where White makers/hardware people can be a bit problematic on the local scene, but not so much in the markets. I've seen African, Middle Eastern traders accommodated in much the same way. And the good treatment probably comes with a slight markup so evens out in the end.

⬐ flanbiscuit

Hey I've seen your work posted on /r/cyberpunk, you make awesome stuff!

⬐ rtkwe

Off topic but What is that fried layered egg roll up thing around 9:46 in the video? It looks pretty great and I want to try to find/make one.

⬐ threadwhisperer

Never been to Shenzhen but as a Malaysian, it looks a lot like a roti canai, which is an Indian-influenced flatbread. There are frozen ones sold internationally (I've personally seen them in grocery stores in the UK and South Korea) so they may be available where you are. It might be called either roti canai or roti paratha on the packaging.

⬐ tertansa

In China, it's called an "Egg Pancake"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QSivyUEQIY

⬐ petermcnister25

Totally unrelated but I loved your Hikaru Skirt and made one for my gf back then as a bday present (to go to a Vocalid live). It helped me to design and hide a small box and get similar electronics.

⬐ SexyCyborg

>Totally unrelated but I loved your Hikaru Skirt and made one for my gf back then as a bday present (to go to a Vocalid live). It helped me to design and hide a small box and get similar electronics.

Great to hear:-)

⬐ timaz

That's great to hear that it's accurate!

As an American, what differences do you see in the electronics community now that you're an expat in China?

⬐ None

None

⬐ scottyallen

I think one of the huge differences in east vs west electronics/maker/hacker communities is the approach of DIY vs using production services. In the US, as a hobbyist with a limited budget, if you want to have a PCB made, you either send it off to OSH Park and wait weeks, or you try and make it yourself and get pretty low quality results. Here in Shenzhen, nobody even considers it. You upload the file to professional board house, and standard turn around is 3-4 days. For $30 more, you can get 24-hour turnaround.

So there's just this really different approach of "what can I make myself with the tools I own" versus "what professional services do I have access to, and which of my friends have factories with the right production equipment".

As a result, you see stark difference in quality of initial prototypes.

The flip side is that I think western makers/hackers are more focused on coming up with completely new ideas, with less of a focus on quality of execution, whereas a lot of chinese makers/hackers/manufacturers are more focused on iterative improvement - how can I be really clever to make something cheaper or easier to produce, that looks like a professional product. Both sides are very clever and creative, but focus on different aspects.

⬐ SexyCyborg

>The flip side is that I think western makers/hackers are more focused on coming up with completely new ideas, with less of a focus on quality of execution, whereas a lot of chinese makers/hackers/manufacturers are more focused on iterative improvement - how can I be really clever to make something cheaper or easier to produce, that looks like a professional product. Both sides are very clever and creative, but focus on different aspects.

Yes, I agree

⬐ sabujp

except for the part about the ease of repairing and iphone

⬐ scottyallen

That really means a lot, especially coming from you. I tried really, really hard to accurately portray Shenzhen and the markets, and it's nice to hear from a local maker that I've at least partly succeeded. Thank you:)

⬐ vit05

Amazing how they use WeChat for everything and how someone's word has value in the negotiations. They hardly use paper, receipts. Great documentary.

⬐ mrbill

Dupe of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14100989