HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

I think Nissan has bet that in a few years, LIDAR will be inexpensive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfRqNAhAe6c

⬐ greglindahl

I think most people think LIDAR is going to eventually be inexpensive -- even Tesla has a few test cars with LIDAR. However, it's a fair weather sensor, so you'll have to do a lot more for level 5.

⬐ RealityVoid

I wonder if I want to put my money betting on this how should I proceed?

⬐ bitJericho

Invest in the trucking industry?

⬐ fragmede

They're probably right, since it's been reported that Google's Waymo has achieved just that - press reports from January say $8,000 per sensor which is positively affordable when compared to $75,000 for a competing sensor.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01/googles-waymo-invests-i...

"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining the lanes or something like that."

How would "magnets" be any improvement over visual markings? Is there some sensor that can track magnets at greater distance, or with greater reliability than visual markings?

Besides, how many millions of miles of road would need to be equipped with these magnets around the world? What would that cost? Would it be acceptable that autonomous cars could only drive on roads that have been properly equipped?

It's worth remembering that self-driving AI does not solely rely on lane markings to navigate. It also can see the road edge, follow other vehicles, and cross-reference with a (learned/crowd-sourced) navigation model of the laneway. Additional sensor types, like LIDAR and radar, are often used in addition to cameras.

You can see a lot of this at work, in a complex London traffic environment, in this demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfRqNAhAe6c

⬐ tmzt

A simple RF transmitter in new versions of the existing reflector discs would do it.

It wouldn't need to do anything but "ping", the battery could last for years. You could even have a mechanism to disable it when the lines are repainted, though normally roads that use the existing version of these reflectors would have them removed when moving lines.

The transmitter would have to be powerful enough to go through a small amount of snow in some states.

The question is can we get the car companies to agree on a standard for this? Would it make sense to put it in the frequency range allocated for vehicle radar systems?

What we get instead is an attempt to define the whole system de jure, including full V2V protocols and specifications.

⬐ Reason077

But what is the actual advantage of this RF system? Why is this any better than just using a camera and image processing?

OK, RF would mean the lane geometry can be "seen" through all weather conditions (fog, snow). But so does precise-enough mapping/fleet learning. Neither would help in detecting traffic and transitory obstacles that might be hidden by that fog - you still need other sensors for that!

A "safe" autonomous vehicle should perhaps simply slow down in adverse weather conditions just as a human driver would. Even without additional sensors, their ability to see through snow and fog is certainly no worse than a humans.

⬐ dzhiurgis

We need transmitters in licence plates and on street signs too.

⬐ Reason077

Why? So they can be "seen" through rain, fog and snow?

Reading road signs optically is a solved problem. Mobileye and similar systems have been doing this for a decade or more.

⬐ dzhiurgis

Well you answered your question.

Further, it would help learning in limited visibility, although they can already do it by remembering locations of signs (people do that, do autonomous cars store city/state/worldwide road data?)

⬐ Animats

"I don't fully understand why more effort is not put into a hardware solution, where roads are simply marked up for self-driving vehicles, e.g. magnets lining the lanes or something like that."

Volvo is plugging for magnets in roads in Sweden, so they can find lanes in the snow. It might happen, because it can also be used for snowplow guidance. In heavy-snow areas, posts, poles, and even over-road arrows (Japan uses this in Hokkaido) are placed to provide guidance. It's not intended to replace vision and LIDAR, just as additional guidance hints for bad conditions.

Only the other 2 sentences in my post.

Off subject, you may find this cool https://youtu.be/cfRqNAhAe6c

⬐ radiorental

Thanks! Some very cool stuff in the pipeline from Nissan. I'd be wary of these controlled demos though, it's a tougher problem in the real world. I think the path forward are 3rd party units like the PX2 from Nvidia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-96BEoXJMs0

Apple, Tesla, Google & Baidu have sucked up all the talent. That's pushed out development timelines for automotive manufacturers like Nissan beyond someone like Nvidia shipping an off-the-shelf solution.

⬐ koreyb

Had not seen that before, amazing! Thank you.

The equipment/setup cost Nissan something like $750k. Nvidia PX2 is good enough for Tesla!

⬐ roddux

I've never seen an autonomous vehicle drive with traffic before, let alone keep pace. Perhaps I simply haven't been keeping up with the latest advances in the technology, but this looks very cool.

It's mentioned in the video of course, but it's worth noting that there's still no way for the car to appropriately deal with heavy rain (or snow) obscuring the cameras.