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My parents signed up to a Common Market. Not to a political union, not to flags, anthems, presidents

EU Debates | eudebates.tv · Youtube · 1 HN comments
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Nigel Farage (NI). – Madam President, so this is it, the final chapter, the end of the road: a 47—year political experiment that the British, frankly, have never been very happy with. My mother and father signed up to a common market, not to a political union, not to flags, anthems, presidents – and now you even want your own army. https://www.eudebates.tv/tag/brexit/ #eudebates #Brexit #Ireland #IrishBorders #EUborders #EuropeanParliament #UnitedKingdom #VoteBrexit #BREXITDeal #NoDeal #nationalism #populism #NigelFarage
For me, it’s been 27 years of campaigning and over 20 years here in this Parliament. I’m not particularly happy with the agreement we’re being asked to vote on tonight, but Boris has been remarkably bold in the last few months and, Ms von der Leyen, he’s made it clear: he’s promised us there’ll be no level playing field. And, on that basis, I wish him every success in the next round of negotiations, I really do.

But the most significant point is this: what happens at 11p.m. this Friday, 31 January 2020 marks the point of no return. Once we’ve left we are never coming back, and the rest, frankly, is detail. We’re going, we will be gone – and that should be the summit of my own political ambitions. I walked in here – as I’ve said before, you all thought it was terribly funny, you stopped laughing in 2016 – but my view has changed of Europe since I joined.

In 2005, I saw the Constitution that had been drafted by Giscard and others. I saw it rejected by the French in a referendum. I saw it rejected by the Dutch in a referendum. And I saw you, in these institutions, ignore them, bring it back as the Lisbon Treaty and boast you could ram it through without there being referendums. Well, the Irish did have a vote and did say no and were forced to vote again. You’re very good at making people vote again. But what we proved is, the British are too big to bully, thank goodness.

So I became an outright opponent of the entire European project. I want Brexit to start a debate across the rest of Europe. What do we want from Europe? If we want trade, friendship, cooperation, reciprocity, we don’t need a European Commission. We don’t need a European Court. We don’t need these institutions and all of this power. And I can promise you, both in UKIP and indeed in the Brexit party, we love Europe; we just hate the European Union. It’s a simple as that.

So I’m hoping this begins the end of this project. It’s a bad project. It isn’t just undemocratic, it’s anti—democratic, and it puts in that front row, it gives people power without accountability – people who cannot be held to account by the electorate. And that is an unacceptable structure.

Indeed, there’s an historic battle going on now across the West: in Europe, America and elsewhere. It is globalism against populism. And you may loathe populism, but I’ll tell you a funny thing, it’s becoming very popular, and it has great benefits: no more financial contributions, no more European Court of Justice, no more common fisheries policy, no more being talked down to, no more being bullied, no more Guy Verhofstadt. I mean, what’s not to like?

I know you’re going to miss us, I know you want to ban our national flags, but we’re going to wave you goodbye and we’ll look forward, in the future, to working with you as sovereign...

(The President cut off the speaker)

President. – If you disobey the rules, you get cut off. Could we please remove the flags. Mr Farage, could you remove the flags, please. Could I please ask for quiet. Please sit down. Resume your seats. Put your flags away and take them with you, if you are leaving now. Goodbye.

Can I just say that the word ‘hate’ was used in the last contribution. I really think, given what we heard before this, that we should not ‘hate’ anyone, or any people or any nation.

(Applause)
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> “The contribution which an organized and living Europe can bring to civilization is indispensable to the maintenance of peaceful relations. In taking upon herself for more than 20 years the role of champion of a united Europe, France has always had as her essential aim the service of peace. A united Europe was not achieved and we had war.

> Europe will not be made all at once, or according to a single plan. It will be built through concrete achievements which first create a de facto solidarity. The coming together of the nations of Europe requires the elimination of the age-old opposition of France and Germany. Any action taken must in the first place concern these two countries.

And as your quote shows, it's a long stretch to take the aspiration of a "united Europe" to mean inexorably leading to the problematic; often anti-democratic, institutions we have today. The aspirations were from the beginning economic, and there is no reason at all to think that this can instead take an intergovernmental, rather than supranational form. There was, contrary to what you suggest, no "single plan" that was always in place that governments have subsequently had to, in your words, "lie" about.

> And the common agriculture policy. And the fisheries policy. And the customs union. And the human rights. And Ireland. The British government had a lot of incompatible red lines from the beginning. This was obvious to anyone who has been paying attention.

No, it's freedom of movement, that's the main thing. There wouldn't have been Brexit without the European migrant crisis that shortly preceded it. Brexiters like Farage want a return to economic, not political, union, even if there is grumbling around certain policies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQrUFrnW1R4

> That is not going to happen, at least in the foreseeable future

And the weaker member states who have adopted the Euro will continue to pay for it.

> More undemocratic than the Parliament in Westminster? You must be joking. And how accountable is the Bank of England? But yeah, rule Britannia.

Please read hackernews comment guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

Also please read Yanis Veroufakis's "Adults in the Room" on how the democratic deficit resulted in undemocratic austerity being forced upon Greece, resulting in a humanitarian crisis. There is no comparison between the ECB and Greece and the Bank of England and Parliament.

A return to a European Economic Community, with additional, optional, further integration around freedom of movement, for those who want it, would benefit the citizens of Europe. I don't expect that to happen, however.

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