HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

⬐ m0zg

In-Q-Tel, folks. Look it up. It funded all this "social media" BS early on for what appears to be precisely this reason.

⬐ marnett

In-Q-Tel appears to be a not for profit venture capital firm explicitly with the aim of investing in companies that aid the US Intelligence effort. However, I just looked at their investment portfolio via Wikipedia and didn’t see any notable social media startups they invested in. What companies are you thinking of?

⬐ Saptarishi

In the words of Andy Greenberg, in Sandworm, he says In-Q-Tel is assigned the task of furthering the interests of 3 letter agencies.

⬐ atatatat

> I just looked at their investment portfolio via Wikipedia

Go back two spaces.

⬐ m0zg

https://search.brave.com/search?q=social+media+in-q-tel&sour...

That wasn't so hard, now, was it? Nothing overt, as it were, but the claws are clearly in there, all over the place, and the interest is undeniable.

Notably, they have ties to other, for-profit VC firms, one of which is Accel.

⬐ sneakerblack

Yo, chill

⬐ eurasiantiger

This is not the way.

⬐ cyberbanjo

In-Q-Tel sold 5,636 shares of Google, worth over $2.2 million, on November 15, 2005.[9] The shares were a result of Google's acquisition of Keyhole, Inc, the CIA-funded satellite mapping software now known as Google Earth.

From In-Q-Tel Wikipedia Page

⬐ marnett

Thank you - I missed this while skimming.

⬐ cinquemb

There's an implicit trust assumption in the upstream data sources provided to such that goes unmentioned…

⬐ entropicgravity

Snowden for president. Hard to believe that Obama didn't have the balls to pardon him.

⬐ randomopining

Snowden is hugely hypocritical.

Hurting the US, which helps Putin and CCP. At least the US has a feedback loop that the people are in, they can vote and actually make a difference.

He stays in Russia, which does the same thing but doesn't let any of that get out - they'd killed anybody who leaked one thing. And of course the CCP, which implements all of this on such a large and open scale it's hilarious. Of course Snowden won't speak out against them, because he'd be gone in a second.

So yeah - get this guy back, give him a trial, and give him what he deserves.

PS: As a normal American who doesn't do anything bad, I don't care that they collect my anonymous metadata and apply some ML algos to it.

⬐ nolroz

Yep, that's the argument that seems to feel correct until your GPS data gets correlated with a crime and you end up in jail for something you didn't commit. It's happened already, it'll happen again. Or, like in Afghanistan right now- a government changes policy or makes new laws and then all of a sudden you've been a criminal all along and need to be punished.

⬐ randomopining

So you're entire counterargument is a "what if"... fail. None of this has ever happened in the US, or even came close. Because there would be an outrage if so.

⬐ nolroz

Oh yeah, it totally happened in the us, just recently. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-shot...

⬐ ncmncm

The overarching, primary use of surveillance is, always and everywhere, extortion. The person coerced is often not the person with a secret, or even the person harmed. "We know your son is doing X. Maybe in exchange for ruling on this case the way we ask, for awarding the contract to the party we suggest, by dropping prosecution of this person we designate, by firing the person we finger, we can let your son slide, this time."

Extortion is the key tradecraft of the FBI: "Testify [falsely] against this person and we will drop prosecution for this crime we have proof you did." Extortion is the key tradecraft of spies: "Get us these documents and we need not notify your daughter-in-law of your son's indiscretions." Extortion made Jeffrey Epstein a billionaire.

⬐ _def

He doesn't talk only about the US.

Regarding your PS, how do you know what is "bad" and will be considered "bad" in the future? This is blind trust in your privileges. Also, there is nothing "anonymous" about mass surveillance.

⬐ rhabarba

Also, not everyone will always be reigned by benevolent politicians. A malevolent politician could have interesting ideas on what to do with collected "anonymous" metadata.

⬐ randomopining

There's too many checks and balances in the US government. ex. The opposing party in congress has powers on the committees to investigate things, etc. State govs have powers etc.

⬐ _def

No, there are not. Intel services are abusing their power and will continue to do so.

⬐ excalibur

Because all of those checks and balances have been working so WELL of late.

⬐ bellyfullofbac

State governments disenfranchising voters en masse because they didn't like how the last federal election turned out sure shows how much power they currently have...

⬐ brokenmachine

You have to be kidding.

Snowden literally exposed the spooks lying to congress to cover up illegal spying on every US citizen.

Checks and balances, lol.

⬐ _def

Exactly. And even if you're doing "nothing wrong", that's not the point. It's all about how the surveillance data is going to be used and interpreted. Oh, you say you didn't commit $CRIME? Well, our data says otherwise, and computers don't lie, bye.

⬐ ycombigator

"Doesn't do anything bad"

Now, here's a man who's never read much literature.

⬐ xyzzy21

Get stuffed!

Snowden made the ultimate sacrifice for the USA and its Constitution.

I was put in a similar situation at one time: I was read-into a top secret program and the only part that required that level of clearance was:

"We are intentionally breaking the law and going against expressed Congressional cancelation of the project by continuing to fund using a slush fund created from black project funding that isn't on the public record".

I was faced with the same situation Snowden faced: 1) whistle blow about it, 2) cooperate with it by aiding and abetting illegal acts that could easily be considered treason, or 3) quit and have nothing to do with it.

I took the last option which is almost as cowardly as going along but marginally more moral. I've never worked on any DOD program since and I will not help or work on any DOD program ever.

Snowden went above and beyond in what he did and he was right in a very SELF-sacrificial way. He's a hero for that.

The fucking CCP does not exist, clown! Russia is more of Christian nation now than either the US is now or than the CCP ever was! Giving sanctuary like this is far more Christian that what anyone would get for the US government in the last few decades.

He'd likely be killed before he makes it to trial if he comes back so honestly I don't blame him. I'm sure he sees the irony of this because CORRECTLY it doesn't make the US seem like the bastion of freedom, due process or good. Because if you haven't noticed, the country is not remotely living up to its own founding principles or Constitution particularly recently.

Yeah, "why worry; I've done nothing wrong". That's NOT how reality works - you can be prosecuted/persecuted even doing "nothing wrong." From my experience it's only a matter of time and sheep like you will be the first to be sacrificed.

⬐ satronaut

Whenever somebody says "I don't care because I have nothing to hide", I ask how they'd feel if I secretly filmed them while they brushed their teeth in the morning. I usually get a long pause after saying that.

Snowden is a hero. It's terrifying how we all just shrugged our shoulders and demanded 0 accountability from the government. That was back in (2013?) and I'm sure that the survelance tools are leagues beyond what they had back then, and google/facebook/twitter are even more complicit than before.

Hell, people are begging for vaccine passports now, which would exclude people by default from society.

⬐ Craighead

lol didnt read

⬐ eurasiantiger

> The fucking CCP does not exist, clown!

LOL, right. What is it, then? Just another arm of the transnational capitalists?

⬐ 2OEH8eoCRo0

>I was put in a similar situation at one time: I was read-into a top secret program

No you weren't.

⬐ randomopining

Lol at your clearly biased and sophomoric response.

1. He became an internationally known figure over night. No doubt he gets paid for interviews, appearances, books, op-eds etc. Probably lives a great life in Moscow. Plus he has a "word" on things, people value it. He got all that by doing his act.

2. CCP does not exist? Just going to plainly say: lol. Russia is an oligarchal-controlled country. They use nationalism and "Orthodox Christianity" as a cover for their deeds. Exactly how Christian were the operations in Chechnya? Truly lol at your response.

3. Give me one example of these metadata collection programs beings used to illegally prosecute and imprison an American citizen in America? Seriously, find one. You can't say "its gonna happen!" as proof that it is happening.

Overall 0/10 counter on your part.

⬐ bellyfullofbac

Well, why do us idiots bother trying to counteract you, you surely already know everything better! /s

Snowden living a great life in Moscow? He's trapped in that country, maybe even that city, he can't go home to the US or travel anywhere because of the risk of getting arrested by America-friendly governments (or who knows if the CIA has worse plans). If what he wanted was the money, he was a well-paid consultant living in Hawaii, in your world of what you think his motivation is, he would've been better off shutting up and being a cog in the giant surveillance machine.

⬐ rhabarba

> They use nationalism and "Orthodox Christianity" as a cover for their deeds.

Sounds like the Bush administration to me.

⬐ eurasiantiger

Everyone is using religion as a cover. Even the US-led Taliban.

⬐ ncmncm

How many people prosecuted under the Espionage Act in the last decade were spies? One, maybe? How many were journalists, or people assisting journalists? All the rest?

These people imprisoned were the only ones obeying the law, by reporting violation of laws, as required by law. Meanwhile, all the eager participants in torture programs are walking around loose, still collecting paychecks.

How can we get them prosecuted?

⬐ Miiko

> The fucking CCP does not exist, clown!

CCP = Chinese Communist Party. What does not exist was called CCCP ;)

⬐ sysrpl

The joke is on them. I don't have a cell phone, I don't use Facebook, and I am constantly Linux distro hopping when I work writing code while ssh'ed into private servers behind my private VPN.

⬐ nix23

>and I am constantly Linux distro hopping when I work

Oh no, not again that "security" "mitigation"....

⬐ ericwooley

That will show em!

Look at all the convenience your giving up, just so you can be red flagged.

⬐ banku_brougham

very skeptical of this assumption, maybe

⬐ sysrpl

Since when is Facebook a convenience? Regarding a cell phone, I don't commute and I don't have even the tiniest bit of need for one. Linux is better than Windows, and it's my opinion everyone ought to use a VPN.

Finally, you have to be a real conspiracy nut case to believe not having an Facebook account or cell phone would get someone `red flagged` by a shadow overlording spying agency.

⬐ eurasiantiger

> you have to be a real conspiracy nut case to believe not having an Facebook account or cell phone would get someone `red flagged` by a shadow overlording spying agency.

You are living in a dream world, Neo.

⬐ harperlee

As a counterexample of your “nut case” hypothesis, in anti money laundering, now, across the globe, a bank not having enough profiling information about you is deemed a red flag, and assigns you more risk - that may rise to the point that they close your accounts or that your assets may be frozen proactively by the bank without a judge, or the police for that matter, to opine in the freeze.

Not many banks use facebook as a datapoint but mobile phone and address? Par for the course. And this is going to increase with fraud and aml converging.

⬐ beezischillin

Scientific progress seems to turn everything into an arms race that becomes more and more tempting, dangerous and risky as things advance. We seem to lack the self restraint necessary to stop ourselves from playing the game, the primary victim of which are always going to be us eventually, in this case as the means of tyranny are democratised.

⬐ lanevorockz

Pretty much an inevitability once governments become too big. It’s a common literary topic in the early 1900s covering from Orwell, Kafka, Brave New World just to name a few examples.

⬐ 8note

Or too small, as gilded ages and the like show in practice