HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

Is it fashionable to bash java ?

What about https://github.com/graalvm/truffle or https://bitbucket.org/allr/fastr/wiki/Home or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo ? There is serious innovation happening in java land (through Oracle - without talking about Clojure, etc.)

Java EE exists because of the need to support large legacy, enterprise customers.

For those who are starting out in Java web frameworks, people usually use Spring or Spring Bootstrap (and sometimes the newer Java 8 only http://sparkjava.com/).

⬐ chvid

It has been fashionable to bash java for the past +10 years.

⬐ mohaine

Yes. And Spring is a large part of the of the reason, not the solution. Every time you see somebody making fun of Java for AbstractSingletonProxyFactoryBean and its like they are actually making fun of Spring, not Java.

Btw, that is a real class, not a made up example.

http://docs.spring.io/spring-framework/docs/3.0.x/api/org/sp...

⬐ sandGorgon

again, it is the enterprise market.

But then there is spring-boot http://projects.spring.io/spring-boot/#quick-start

Oracle's Graal.js will support Node.js https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo&feature=youtu.be

⬐ jerven

The great team keeps on surprising me in nice ways. If this js and java integration works as nice as demonstrated we could use a js frontend on our java backend without going via json objects over the wire but in one process.

⬐ jjn2009

this appears to be the main benefit, bringing node code closer to existing java based stacks.

⬐ brudgers

Graal uses the OTN licence.

It states:

License Rights We grant You a revocable, nonexclusive, nontransferable, royalty-free and limited right to (a) use one (1) copy of the binary portions of the Programs and any Supplemental Programs for the sole purpose of internal non-production and non-commercial evaluation and testing of the Programs, including, developing no more than a single prototype of each of Your applications; and (b) if provided by Us at our sole discretion, view the source code portions of the Programs internally for the purposes of evaluation and testing only (collectively, “Authorized Use”).

All rights not expressly granted above are hereby reserved. If You want to use the Oracle Technology for any purpose other than as permitted under this agreement, including but not limited to distribution of the Oracle Technology or the application You develop or any use of the Oracle Technology or the application You develop for Your internal business purposes (other than the Authorized Use), You must obtain a valid Oracle license permitting such use.

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/licenses/early-adopter-lic...

⬐ EvanPlaice

Well... That's a deal breaker.

It reads like:

"We need free beta testers and early adopters to depend on our software. Later we'll charge exorbitant licensing fees when it's put into production or sue them out of existence."

Considering the Google/Java court battles. I wouldn't touch anything made by Oracle with a 20 foot pole.

⬐ bmc7505

According to Christian Wirth, they are, "working on open sourcing it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo&t=522

⬐ EvanPlaice

Well... That's a deal breaker.

It reads like:

"We need free beta testers and early adopters to depend on our software. Later we'll charge exorbitant licensing fees when it's put into production or sue them out of existence."

Considering the Google/Java court battles. I wouldn't touch anything made by Oracle with a 20 foot pole.

⬐ vdnkh

>(a) use one (1) copy of the binary portions of the Programs and any Supplemental Programs for the sole purpose of internal non-production and non-commercial evaluation and testing of the Programs, including, developing no more than a single prototype of each of Your applications;

How could someone with any dev experience think this is reasonable, let alone enforceable?

⬐ jerven

You can get most of this with the gpl2 plus classpath exception at the university of linz site. Or the relevant openjdk repository. the other version has autovectorisation and this graal.js. But the team hopes to opensource that too. So once it's production ready the license will change to the standard oracle jdk or openjdk one as you wish.

http://lafo.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at/builds

Here's a recent talk:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo

> It's not like they're lighting the world on fire with their performance running dynamic languages. (I mean, it's fine, but it's nothing special)

Yes, they pretty much are[1], and yes, it is[2].

Their 80 kLOC JS compiler is on par with V8, they're matching or beating PyPy when running Python, and their Ruby performance is out of this world. The downside, though, is that it has a long warmup time, which makes it unsuitable for web pages.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUo3BFMwQFo

[2]: https://twitter.com/ChrisGSeaton/status/619885182104043520