HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

Contrary to popular belief, the highest chance of success, and largest entrepreneurial successes, come from founders who are 47 years old when they start their companies.

You are still 10 years away from the statistical "peak" to start your startup.

Yes you will recover.

This experience may be exactly what you need to become great. It's your choice to either hide from it and whither away in regret or face it head on and extract all the value it has to offer. Growth comes from painful reflection on our mistakes.

Studying Stoicism and this lecture series really helped me get through the failure of my startup (Which I spent 7 years building and then had to sell for $1).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

Note the lecturer is controversial politically now... but this series genuinely helped me put myself back together after my ego was shattered - I am way better off now (and more resilient) and years later building another company which is doing great so far.

⬐ elforce002

I didn't know that. Thanks for sharing it. I thought I was pass that peak (35), hehe.

⬐ skinnymuch

I’m happy the videos worked for you. Just to be clear, Jordan Peterson isnt controversial now and not during those videos. He began lying* about the extent of the laws for pronouns in Canada a year before those 2017 videos. *IE there’s no pronoun arrests still.

Even earlier than that he espoused beliefs of yearning for the old days when a man could make a living for the whole family and casually beat his wife (look up his redpill fedora access/public tv video for this).

This isn’t to take away from those videos helping you or any one. Just to clarify Peterson was a “controversial” (a shitty person imo) long before now.

⬐ namecheapTA

You say he's been lying about the laws, and for proof you offer the fact that no one's been arrested for it yet. Is that really how it works? If the government doesn't prosecute, then the law that is written should not be discussed as written?

⬐ skinnymuch

I casually mentioned no one has been prosecuted. That wasn’t my proof. The proof is the law itself and what Peterson said about it.

Your Q is irrelevant here as Peterson wasn’t discussing what was written as law, but his narrative.

⬐ badpun

> Even earlier than that he espoused beliefs of yearning for the old days when a man could make a living for the whole family and casually beat his wife (look up his redpill fedora access/public tv video for this).

If you're posting such a serious accusation, you should at least provide the link yourself...

⬐ skinnymuch

It isn’t a serious accusation. Peterson hasn’t never been secretive of his bigotry and right wing extremism. Going more mask off now just makes him more extreme, not a different person.

I said what to look up. If this is such a big accusation as to respond asking for a link, why not type or copy paste the few words mentioned?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TWsxFKF__is I have the uninterrupted clip saved locally, but here’s a video talking about and showing some of it. There should still be actual full clip ones too.

⬐ badpun

I found the video you refer to (https://www.reddit.com/r/justneckbeardthings/comments/mdmlm0...) and it does not contain any of the things you listed. Did you even listen to what he was saying? His point was only that, as flawed as 50ties men were, the ones current culture is producing may be even worse for women and that people demolishing traditional values may have thrown out baby with the bathwater here.

Now, is he right? It's hard to tell, but the phenomenon he describes definitely exists to some degree.

⬐ skinnymuch

Did you miss the part where he yearned for the days when 50s men could come home and repress [sic] women? He brought up 50s men again later. Sure I exaggerated since he doesn’t explicitly say hit your wife. However if one is to say imagine a 1950s testosterone filled man comes home after being the sole bread winner and oppressed his wife, there will be a non zero amount of people who will think that can or will involve hitting your wife.

He didn’t say much about their flaws. He kept hedging for how they are the good and better ones. He for sure never phrased this as “as flaws as 50ties men were” in the context of the whole thing.

Knowing Jordan Peterson’s sexism, racism, religious bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, disregard for the poor, and his own hypocrisy of his own mean advice and sayings on drug addiction, if a statement about a 50s guy coming home to repress/oppress his wife doesn’t scream a big issue to you, nothing will. You will be able to turn anything he says into a positive, and I will not see his sneaky wording as anything but that.

I mean in his Kyle Kulinski discussion recently and before that too, he talks about how “remember when [gay] pride used to be a sin?” As if that’s an indictiment on being gay. And that gay and trans advocacy is tricking people into being gay and trans. It’s insanely baffling to appreciate someone’s words when they actually are saying straight cis people are being tricked into being gay or trans. No less to the point of a morale panic. I can’t give any benefit of the doubt to such an overt bigot.

> Now, is he right? It's hard to tell, but the phenomenon he describes definitely exists to some degree.

He’s probably wrong. His own philosophies with all this are bankrupt to begin with. He talks about hierarchies being natural and the best with the alphas rising up. Yet marriage is the opposite of that. It forces exclusive monogamy and is pushed down through culture and society. He has been asked by Rogan and others about this contradiction to his work. His answers are quite wanting. It’s obvious there’s no answer except monogamy benefits him and many of his fans who aren’t the most playboy types and are likely conservative leaning thus want “traditions”.

⬐ 8vectors

I think you are twisting the truth and slandering someone who has dedicated their life to trying to help others improve their own lives. I think what you are saying here is basically evil. I can't tell if its based in fear or hate, but I am pretty certain it is wrong to its core. I find it extremely disturbing.

I hope you can become more curious and less whatever this is. For your own sake and for the sake of the people in your life you care about.

⬐ skinnymuch

Instead of going into any specific rebuttals you say generic stuff. I pointed to specific things Peterson has done and does. You didn’t do anything except do a bunch of assumptions and passive aggressive stuff like “I find it extremely disturbing” or “less whatever this is”.

Here’s another recent Peterson tidbit of being a bad person and not improving people’s lives. In one of his recent Daily Wire stuff, he said Russia is attacking Ukraine for trying to be more woke like America. Which is incredibly wrong when Ukraine has lots of non-woke stuff and is not “woke” haha. Secondly, what an awful thing to say to defend Putin’s evil invasion of Ukraine and the deaths of innocent people.

Even Peterson’s fans on his subreddit and on the YouTube video and other comment sections were upset at his callous and wrong take on the Ukrainian invasion. Just like many of his fans are upset with his joining Daily Wire and being so completely mask off these days.

Some more issues of when he is saying stuff that doesn’t appear to improve lives: what about when he insults women who wear make up. Or insults women he finds unattractive? Or when he hypocritically doesn’t call out his own daughter for wearing make up.

What about when he insulted a dead patient (RIP) of his for using up his money on drugs and then dying from them? Meanwhile he went ahead and spent a lot of money to go to Russia to be put into coma. He blames people for getting addicted to drugs, but when it is him, there is an excuse.

how is his bigotry against lgbtq people helping them? Is this stuff not “evil”? Since you claimed I am saying evil things —- without any specific backing of how.

—-

I can keep giving actual examples of Peterson not being a good person. No need to resort to personal attacks, gaslighting, and making narratives up.

If you aren’t satire and aren’t acting in bad faith, please give some actual info on how I’m being evil with the specifics of what I’ve said. Or specifics of my slandering. Also please respond to any times you believe I’ve said the truth about Peterson. Of course that won’t happen, much less a response at all.

I at the very least had my first response to you include me being happy for you getting better even if it’s from Peterson. You on the other hand have shown no semblance of good faith in this last response.

Finally. Just because I find Peterson to be a bigoted hate filled individual, doesn’t mean I think that about you. An attack on Peterson is not an attack on you. So there’s no need for you to push such harsh attacks on me.

⬐ 8vectors

Did you learn about Jordan Peterson by listening to one of his talks in full and then forming your own opinions? Or did you learn about Jordan Peterson from reading or listening to the opinion of someone else who clipped him and chose the narrative?

I don't expect to change your opinion about Jordan so I won't get into an argument about the various ways to interpret things he has said, especially when referenced out of context.

But to be clear, I consider this to be slander - this is quoted from your post: "Knowing Jordan Peterson’s sexism, racism, religious bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, disregard for the poor, and his own hypocrisy of his own mean advice and sayings on drug addiction".

And this from your earlier post:

"...He began lying* about the extent of the laws for pronouns in Canada a year..."

Remember you started this by saying "he's not controversial" ... lol, like what?

But seriously...

Honestly, I am afraid. I am afraid that Jordan is good at helping people become strong, capable and responsible people. People capable of taking care of themselves and others. People capable of making a difference and changing the world. I am afraid that once Jordan started helping a lot of people, some other people decided he needed to be stopped. I am afraid these other people would rather everyone just fall in line and do what they are told and not think for themselves. I am afraid these people want anyone who disagrees with them to be silenced. I am afraid these people want all the power for themselves and will burn our society to the ground to get it. I am afraid these people don't care about truth and are willing to sacrificed truth for power.

I am afraid you are a pawn of theirs.

That is what I meant when I said "I think what you are saying is basically evil".

Something else to consider... Jordan is exceptional at helping people overcome mental health struggles. Are you sure it serves you to hold the opinions of him that you do? What if exactly what you need to be able to have the life you want is in Jordan's lectures?

⬐ skinnymuch

I said he isn’t controversial now and not in the past. Key word is “and”. Both things aren’t both true. According to you, you have now slandered me by twisting my words. According to you, that’s evil.

How do you think I have so many specific examples of Peterson? I’m speaking from specific examples of hearing him speak.

You did a whole thing of what you find slanderous. You didn’t explain why. Everything you write are some vague stuff. Nothing specific or substantive.

Are you saying Peterson isn’t a raging bigot against lgbtq people? I’ll stick to one example because you consistently do not respond to any specific critiques. I gave examples of Peterson specifically being a bigot against lgbtq people. Including very recently with his Kulinski interview.

Either he is or he isn’t a bigot [against lgbtq people].

> Are you sure it serves you to hold the opinions of him that you do?

Him being a bigot isn’t an opinion. It’s quite messed up imo to call his homophobia and transphobia “my opinion”. You’re insulting a whole lot of lgbtq people. Some would think that’s basically evil.

—

You’re afraid thing doesn’t make sense. He hadn’t helped a whole ton of people in 2016 yet. He wasn’t famous when he began his narrative BS on the pronoun bill. Having a made up narrative concerning someone like me isn’t good. Some would think what you are saying is basically evil.

⬐ 8vectors

I am not going to say it better than this:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/22/what-t...

Or even better... this:

https://medium.com/the-hit-job/why-jordan-peterson-is-not-ne...

I don't think we should continue this debate here, its not appropriate for HN as evidenced by our comments getting flagged.

The last thing I will say is that I am still very confused why and how you can say he isn't controversial. I am starting to wonder if we are using the same definition of controversial...

⬐ skinnymuch

—- Controversial confusion —-

I said he was not: “( controversial now ) and ( not before )”. That can be re-written as: “( he is controversial now ) and ( he was controversial before )”.

The logic key is the “and”. It requires both statements to be true. If part of the statement is not true, it makes the entire statement not true.

IE: “( I am a human ) and ( I am god )”. This statement is not true. I am not god. Confusion cleared?

—-

Your flag argument is concerning. One person can make a comment flagged. How is that representative of HN? Why not stick to that logic for me, one person, saying Peterson is not appropriate for any one because he is a bad person? There’s a certain lack of awareness.

A point of hypocrisy is linking to bad articles. I read the second. It doesn’t touch upon my critique of his Kulinski interview. You asked if I had actually seen any of his stuff or just base off what others say. Then follow that up with being “afraid” I’m being duped by listening to others. Then you link to this as your side.

This gets worse because this writer writes like you. They are “concerned” like you were “afraid”. Neither of you are saying your own original ideas. Picking up typical right wing moral panic BS that frequently weakly masks the bigotry behind it.

The article doesn’t say why he’s a benefit to lgbtq people. Why is he a “blessing in disguise”? It doesn’t give a proper argument for him not being against gay marriage. It says he did not answer the person’s question. That means he’s not for gay marriage.

⬐ raffraffraff

47? This is my year. And in a recession. Best time to start, right?

⬐ brianwawok

If you have money in the bank yes

I highly recommend you listen to these lecture series. I cannot overstate the profound effect they had on my life, by giving me the tools I needed to turn my depression around and give me a sense of balance and control in my life.

https://youtu.be/f-wWBGo6a2w

https://youtu.be/I8Xc2_FtpHI

⬐ throwaway_sjfgd

Thanks. I'll look at these.

Because the world, for the most part, is (and always has been) a dangerous place and hate has proven to be a very useful (highly conserved through evolutionary time) adaptation to help keep small and delicate bands of our ancestors safe for one more day.

You can see this bias towards negativity easily in the structure of basic emotions. There is one positive affect (happiness) and waaaaay more negative affects (fear, anger, disgust, sadness) and only one neutral (surprise). And those negative emotions are all very distinct.

If you want more detail I can recommend over 120 hours of learning in the following (which I've watched and digested). They'll walk you through the details from the bottom to the top.

-

Watch Robert Sapolsky's lectures:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD7E21BF91F3F9683

Watch Jordan Peterson's Personality lectures:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYYJlNbV1OM&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

and his Maps of Meaning Lectures:

(or read the book or listen to the audio book)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

⬐ babygoat

Jordan Peterson suuuuucks.

⬐ kleer001

Convince me.

⬐ dang

Ok, but would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN? You've done it a lot, and we're trying for better than that here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I know you're not looking for advice, so I'm not going to preach too hard at you, except to say that I recognize the somber lucidity of your tone, and I've been there. Depression's heaviest weapon is that it feels like the heaviest truth. It's a bit like being in a room within a room. If nothing outside can be perceived from within the walls, does it matter that it exists?

I was surprised when I got out – I was sure it couldn't happen to me either. I didn't even realize it was happening to me until months in. Lots of things that I thought were concrete facts about myself and the world turned out to be configurable in ways I was ill equipped to predict until they happened.

There was no secret or epiphany or "one weird trick". I mostly did this by pretending as if being were worthwhile. I wasn't interested in anything that happy, normal people were interested in, like meeting new people or wearing clean clothes. But my crude mental model of those people had enough fidelity to imitate them, at least somewhat. So I did, in earnest. Eventually the mask became the face. We are what we repeatedly do. I lost about 6 years before I started doing that, and it took about another 6 to 9 months before I noticed that anything had changed.

I have to give a lot of credit to a lecture series I was recommended on HN as well: Maps of Meaning, from Jordan Peterson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

It's weird stuff. Took some getting through. I don't remember what the first guy said that made me stick with it, but I'm glad I did.

Email's in the profile if you want to chat about whatever. Doesn't have to be serious.

It's never too late. Tonight, it is a fact that at least one person in the world gives a fuck about you.

For those interested in his non-gender identity content:

His series on the Bible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-wWBGo6a2w&index=1&list=PL2...

is generally regarded (by those I know, at least) as Jordan at his best. He goes through the first few stories in the Bible and tries to bring meaning to them, not from the fundamental Christian lens of "this is absolute truth," but more like:

"Here are some archetypal patterns about the world and how to act in it that our ancestors have discovered over thousands of years and distilled into stories. Maybe they hold truth that isn't the 'word of God' truth, but observations about the world that have utility to us even as a modern, rational, scientific civilization. I'll back this up by tying it to studies on psychology, neuroscience, evolution, and animal behavior, and show that variations of the same archetypal stories appear in non-Judeo-Christian societies all over the world."

You can be a hardline atheist and still get tons of value out of these lectures.

I also found his 2017 Maps of Meaning lectures particularly interesting, and personally more relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI

He does a similar thing with the story of Pinocchio instead of the Bible for the first few lectures, which might be more palatable for some. There's a lot of overlap with the Bible series as well.

I like these ones (and even having attended Catholic high school, it was the first piece of media that made me actually realize how much human wisdom could be embedded in religious texts), but found his 2017 Maps of Meaning lectures more impactful, personally. He uses his archetypal lens on Pinocchio instead of Genesis for the first few lectures. There's a lot of content overlap but if you liked the Biblical series, definitely check out Maps of Meaning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI

news.ycombinator.com though I wish it had a way to collapse uninteresting conversations.

Stephen Colbert: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMtFAi84ehTSYSE9XoHefig/vid...

and lately I've been binge watching the Jordan Peterson lectures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

ribbonfarm: though I usually only read the articles by Venkatesh Rao: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/author/admin/

also bingewatching lessons on 2x from http://edx.org. It used to be http://coursera.org but their servers are sluggish most of the time.

I'd recommend watching this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI&list=PL22J3VaeAB...

All the best on your journey.