Hacker News Comments on
Music and Life - Alan Watts
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All the comments and stories posted to Hacker News that reference this video.Well-intentioned, I suppose, but this seems more of a scattershot blog post than a thoughtful answer to 'how to choose your college degree'.I've heard a lot recently about 'picking the right college major'. It's normal to worry about such things. I remember.
But I think obsessing over picking the 'right' college degree is a waste of time. If you have particular interests, follow them in college, but waste no more time worrying if you've made the 'right' choice.
I'm in my 50s. I've heard hundreds of stories of the twists and turns of lives and the role of college in them--including my own. I was dead set on being an electrical engineer, and the first year and a half of college was in that subject. I was certain I was destined to invent the next power source and change the world with it.
I ended up with an undergrad in history, and (years later) a graduate degree in urban planning. I've been in the 'tech' business for 30-odd years as a technical writer, then usability engineer, then software developer, then analyst/product owner/whatever.
The best 'engineer' I know has an undergrad in fine arts. They own three software patents; they also make pottery.
My 'old guy' advice to those staring down college decisions:
The road doesn't matter very much. Taking steps matters. Just keep taking action and learning and adjusting and, for god's sake, enjoy your life. It's a dance, not a long march towards 'eventual' happiness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
⬐ roey2009I support the spreading of Alan Watts teachings.
Here's some advice by Alan Watts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
Life is a musical thing, per Alan Watts:
Man this comment is scary af for me. I mean I don't know you from adam but getting to the success at the end of the rainbow is what makes me jump out of bed each morning and not want to go to bed each night.It's my dream that consumes me and keeps me happy more than anything else. But I too sometimes feel that "what happens after it's done" and it is not everything I imagine it to be. What if the bag of dreams we're all chasing is just empty like this Alan watts video(1).
Call it denial but I just try not to think about it a lot as I don't know what the future holds and it's pointless to speculate right now as every person is different. But reading your comment did scare me a little tbh!
⬐ ZephyrBluFounder depression is extremely common: https://blog.asmartbear.com/startup-identity-selling-sadness...If success is the only thing that drives you it's inevitable that you'll be depressed when you become successful because you've just lost the one thing that keeps you going.
>>It's really odd of you saying that for Buddhism, life a "dance". This is really not what Buddhism is about.Alan Watts--who had a thing or two to say about Buddhism--disagrees with you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
⬐ l332mnThat video doesn't support your statement at all. Besides, I don't think Alan Watts is an authoritative source on Buddhism regardless.⬐ stakkurNeither are you or I. We're just expressing opinions. Like Cicero.⬐ l332mnBut you did try to back your claim with a source when challenged on this point, didn't you? Clearly we're not simply "expressing opinions" here.
I don't have a single favorite motto, but here's what I'm striving to live like, described in two minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
"A lifestyle merely describes and/or quantifies the way one lives."This is correct.
I don't draw the conclusion from the post, I make this statement to directly contradict the post, which I believe is unwise.
A further video that underlines my point:
> We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end, and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played.
You're welcome. :-) Thank you for your answer, I think I understand your reasoning a little better.With the example of the mathematician, you can read it a number of different ways, but one of the things I took from it was the difference between a healthy curiosity and an unhealthy curiosity. It sounds to me that you have a healthy curiosity, and enjoy the mental stimulation of exploring the big questions. As long as it remains something you enjoy and you're still open to enjoying other things then you can't really go wrong. If you'd like to find kindred spirits that also enjoy thinking about the big questions, you can find plenty in the world of philosophy. I can recommend The School of Life as an enjoyable way to explore philosophy. As some examples, here are a couple of my favourites from TSoL:
Learning can be done for your own enjoyment, but what I would suggest is the mindset that many of us used to get us through school isn't likely to help with that. I think this video puts it well:
Related to this, here's a discussion about deschooling you may find interesting:
One last thing...
Best of luck!
⬐ JasambaThanks! Loved the songs you had linked, esp the drums. Deschooling sounds very close to what I assume will be required to cope and thrive with nihilism. We are given some very shallow arguments to 'keep going' mainly centering around, 'You need to be successful/find a succesful partner/Be the next einstein'.You only need to go a couple of steps deeper, to realise that these statements are hollow and incomplete. I'm not saying one needs to have a why to do anything at all, just that it needs to be understand that there is no answer to that why. Otherwise it is no different from religious dogma that crumbles at the slightest questioning. Thanks for the aweosme links, gonna check them out one by one!⬐ ZenoArrowGlad you liked the songs! Would be interested to hear what you thought of the other videos too (even if you didn't like them).Whilst I can see that you're looking into nihilism, it's worth knowing that nihilism isn't the only alternative to conventional views and religious dogma. To start this exploration, let's look at reincarnation. My favourite way to look at this is... If you eat an apple, has that apple been reincarnated as a human?
There's even a video.
⬐ cicloidThere's even a video game.⬐ partomniscienthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAmum-Yl9Sw
"Fear of uselessness" seems to be a euphemism for the fear of dying, both the process and the ending.I'm not sure there is a great answer here, so I'm just going to post the Alan Watts talk that brings some perspective for me.
Alan Watts - Music and life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
"[..] but we miss the point the whole way along, it was a musical thing. You were supposed to sing or dance while the music was being played".
Glad to hear Matt is finally questioning his priorities and taking corrective action. Better late than never. Work-life-balance means now, in the present moment, not 15 years from now. The younger we are when we realize that, the better. This is what Alan Watts has to say about it: "Music & Life": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
⬐ peterkellyI knew before even clicking that link it was going to be an Alan Watts video. Just brilliant.
Also very good is his short talk - Music and Life:
I would like to share my opinion on living life.What is the main goal? Some may think that it's getting better at something to get a raise and more money. First there is a school, then there is the 1st job, the you try to get a better one and you are trying and trying and trying to get higher. In my opinion, that's not the main point and it's just a side-effect of the life.
Article suggests that 1st 15 years of life is a training or a tutorial, but I disagree. They are as much as important as any other time period. Person should do what makes he or she happy. If it's playing video-games or spending time with friends at a bar, it's okay. Of course, it won't affect your skills on getting a better job (so more money), but if it makes you a happier person, do it! Life is all about being happy and doing what you love to do.
There is no magic-prize at the end of the life, only memories. What will be the point of having much money and good CV in you will sacrifice your happiness on it.
In my opinion, this video[1] nicely shows what I'm talking about.
⬐ babbyWhile I mostly agree with you, one could also argue that there is a meaning to life and that is not to be happy but is to instead do all that one can do to further human survival (or whatever we end up turning into). One person providing some obscure service eventually bubbles up to the guys colonizing other worlds.There is a default meaning to our life, and it's merely survival. I believe there is a balance between giving into ones emotions and not; doing many great and small things which accumulate into mattering in the grand scheme of it all, determining ones worth.
You're lying on your death bed and you ask yourself; how meaningful were my actions to this universe?
⬐ codonautOne could argue that survival is the meaning of life, just as one could argue that eating cake is the meaning of life. Just because we have a massive instinctual desire to survive doesn't necessarily mean that it is the default meaning of life.
Alan Watts said: (paraphrased)Life is not a journey pilgrimage with an important goal at the end, it is a musical thing and you are supposed to laugh and sing and dance along the way.
For the full text, check out this cool youtube animation made by the Southpark folks from his lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4 (animation style is Southpark-like, content is Alan Watts)
Having grown up as a Christian in the Midwestern US, we were always taught that heaven lasts forever, and therefore I never felt any time pressure. This life can be spent building character and struggling with self improvement and you can enjoy yourself in the next life. As I've come to consider the possibility that life ends when it is over, that mindset no longer makes nearly as much sense to me. Yes I want to improve myself, since self improvement and achievement brings increased opportunities, but why am I striving to find more and more opportunities and achievement? Is there some mystical end point after which I can finally relax and be happy? Why not just decide to relax and be happy now? And so I've tried to do so and I think I'm enjoying life more because of it.I really liked this video by Alan Watts called "Life and Music:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
The 'Music and Life - Alan Watts' animation is a nice yet still succinct play on your 16)
No generation ever knows what its all for until they're 40 possibly 35 because you're outside the holy grail of advertising demographic. Coincidence? Yea probably. If you haven't figured it out by then your not paying much attention anyway. There's prescript of zoloft by the door for you.Anyway, This essay is much the same that Allan Watts articulated in the 60s and I think he did it with much more panache and charm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
I find its best to laugh because it really has been a well executed practical joke.
> A lot of this can be interpreted as a way to shun yourself from the world and not face reality. But can't anyone do that with anything helpful?There are lots of texts on rising above worldly pleasures, and some are very good. I'm a particular fan of Ekhart Tolle's work, and I enjoyed the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying... The Tao of Pooh, and the Te of Piglet got me through a difficult adolescence.
As with any idea, though, simplifying it too far tends to lose important subtleties. The mental austerity mentioned in the original post is likely to strike a resonant chord with many men who wished they had better self-control, and who wished they were acting with more general agency in their life. Men are complete suckers for certain ideals of manhood, certain archetypes that are well presented. If this is something that interests you, I can strongly recommend the books Iron John by Robert Bly, King Warrior Magician Lover by Robert Moore, and the excellent Way of The Superior Man by David Deida.
I find this quote by Alan Watts particularly poignant, and perhaps an antidote to the original post:
"We thought of life by analogy with a journey, a pilgrimage, which had a serious purpose at the end and the thing was to get to that end, success or whatever it is, maybe heaven after you’re dead. But we missed the point the whole way along. It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4)
Alan watts has something important to say about this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
You haven't been failing, you've been dancing. This is the point. Enjoy it and stop waiting for the payoff.
I completely understand how you feel.You sound successful: academically and career wise. You realise this, yet it's never enough and you compare yourself to the cream of the crop or 'what you could be'.
You need to stop this. Constantly wishing for something more while feeling unhappy with where you are 'in the moment' is a bad state of mind. It is not how you want to experience your life and it is certainly not reflective of what you have already achieved. (Many happy people achieve a lot less!)
There will always be people that are more intelligent or more successful, and so on. No matter how hard any of us try, there will always be something more to attain and, truly, if you wished to feel superior to your peers then Hacker News would not be the best place to be. Other than at a few elite universities and companies it is difficult to find people as intelligent, refined and ambitious as those found here. (This is not a bad thing! Being around these kinds of people lifts you up.)
I am not saying 'give up on trying to attain', and the advice which has been given by many in this thread on how to do so or how to free yourself from tedium is brilliant. But remember that life is not a journey in which the only thing important is moving-up and getting to the 'end'. There is not going to be a top to the ladder you're climbing, and the only 'end' is when you die. [1]
As for: gaining confidence in your abilities, feeling better about yourself, having a better thought process, and overcoming whatever real or perceived obstacles you feel lie in your way; my suggestions are that you:
a. Stop considering your life as a giant examination in which you must constantly seek ways of evaluating yourself. Make your life about finding the people and projects that truly engage you and bring you happiness.
b. Consider life a learning experience: embrace change [2]; embrace failure as a neccessity; embrace as much as you can: whatever you do, remember that this might be the last time that you do it. [3] The experience that you get from your life is all you have: make the most of it.
c. Do not let others approval dictate how you feel you must live your life; know this: the choices you make today will create the person that you are tomorrow. Be happy with who and where you are now. You are the result of the convictions and hard work you had yesterday. Take responsibility and find happiness within yourself.
Anyway, hopefully that perspective helps you find a more pleasing direction to your life.
Good luck! :)
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
[2] I actually live in London myself, and I am sure there are startup companies around that would be interested in someone like you if you wanted to get a job here. I don't think the experience level required is quite as high as you think it is: it is more important that you are an intelligent man that works hard, gets on with others, and cares about what he's doing. Likewise, there are Hacker News meetups run here and that is a nice way to meet people similar to yourself.
[3] http://www.boingboing.net/2010/10/27/twenty-first-century-2....
⬐ 18062011This is absolutely fantastic advice and I'm extremely grateful that you took the time to jot it all down.Why you object if I were to get in touch with you? I'm UK based (not London) and would be interested in hearing a bit about the startup/tech scene in and around London. Being involved in a local HN group would be an awesome aid for me.
> Then the progression stops, and the advice runs out. All your life the entire raison d'etre for you has been The Next Step, but now there is none. You've done it, you've hit the end, trumpets are supposed to blare, and... and... And then what?You must have either seen this or you don't need to.
⬐ mturmonA lot of old Alan Watts recordings are still played on KPFK and perhaps other Pacifica stations. There was a time when the West coast avant garde consisted of both artists and nerds, less so now.⬐ potatoliciousI first saw that right when I was going through this whole existential crisis after college. Suffice to say it got me sad and mad all at once - sad that I haven't seen and comprehended this video earlier (though tbh, it wouldn't have made a difference), mad that it took me this long to realize the fundamental truth of what it posits.
This blog post reminded me of Alan Watts' Music and Life, which is great food for thought when pondering your goals in life: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
The following video, narrated by Alan Watts, and animated by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, eloquently describes exactly what you have figured out:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4&feature=playe...
You essentially have come to the realization that the things you have been lead to believe (career, wealth, social status, possessions) are not what will make you happy. This realization can go down a dark path of depression if you're not careful, so be careful and stay level headed. Definitely take time off, pursue interests you never had time for and completely stop worrying about the future. That's the important part, to stop thinking there's some sort of end goal that you're working toward.
⬐ groanerThanks! I saw that a long time ago but definitely appreciated seeing it again. It was certainly helpful.