HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

Cf. Louis C. K. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

For all those who don't get the pun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Everything's amazing and no one is happy by Louis CK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Plus, "simply a taller screen and newer processor", really? New screen, new processor, new innards, new machining and construction, new connector, new iOS, new camera, improved battery life AND lighter.

NFC and wireless charging? Who promised you that? And who delivers those at the moment?

You might want to see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ sophacles

NFC and wireless charging? Who promised you that?

Sorry, false dilemma and totally disingenuous. Just because no one promised it doesn't mean that one couldn't hope for it or be disappointed at its absence. Similarly, having big deal features like those are reasonable expectations for comparison to the original Iphone for "bigness" which I interpret as "important new features that will change how most people use phones in a radical way".

It would in fact be a really big deal if Apple included those - NFC is a fantastic idea that the Iphone could really launch into big-time use. It would in fact be a really big deal if they had wireless charging. Both those would more or less require all the other phones did it too, drastically changing the landscape for a lot of things.

⬐ cube13

>Sorry, false dilemma and totally disingenuous. Just because no one promised it doesn't mean that one couldn't hope for it or be disappointed at its absence. Similarly, having big deal features like those are reasonable expectations for comparison to the original Iphone for "bigness" which I interpret as "important new features that will change how most people use phones in a radical way".

And I'm disappointed that Apple isn't giving everyone a pony. They never promised it, but I'm disappointed that it's not there. I was going to call mine Bob.

I fail to see how being disappointed when features that were never promised aren't delivered is valid disappointment. Apple never promised it because they aren't doing it for this device. It could be coming in the future, or it might not. If, for example, Apple had made official statements about including NFC or wireless charging(not the "rumors" that seem to be the replacement for actual journalism in tech), then disappointment would be warranted. But Apple hasn't done that at all. Would it be nice if they included it? Sure. But they didn't.

This happens just about every time a new piece of tech is announced by everyone, and, quite frankly, it's getting annoying. People complaining about how Samsung isn't doing retina-style displays on their midrange tablets. Or complaining that Nokia is making Windows phones. Or that Apple hasn't included everything that everyone has ever wanted in a phone. With a cherry on top.

There are valid complaints about the new phone and news today: I'm skeptical of the reported battery life, considering all the new tech in the device, and that they made it that much smaller. Or that the majority of the iOS6 features won't be available to the pre-4S iPhones. Or that iTunes is still going to be a resource hog. Or that there's a new connector.

⬐ sophacles

So you think it is stupid of people to want manufacturers to make good technology. Got it. In the mean time, I am going to go ahead and keep hoping that tech gets better, and that manufacturers put good things in new devices - because you know what, they are my dollars, and I get to say what I want in a device before I spend them.

You know what is equally tiring, companies saying "you want existing tech in the products we build? Too bad, you will take what we give you and like it", instead of you know, building things people want to spend money on.

⬐ cube13

No, I don't think it's stupid of people to expect that manufacturers make good technology. As a matter of fact, I expect manufacturers to make good products. I expect manufacturers to produce what they promise to produce. I don't expect companies to deliver on things they don't talk about, though. If they produce something new, that's great!

What I think is stupid is people(mostly tech "journalists") that go "I'm disappointed that this device doesn't have this thing that isn't on the spec sheet and was never announced by the company that makes it as a feature". That's the rough equivalent of being disappointed that you don't get everything you wanted for Christmas as a kid. It's silly.

⬐ sophacles

You are raging about some random person on the internet being disappointed that reasonable (and existing in other phone) features not being available in the new IPhone, not about some tech journalist. Scope matters.

Further, you are comparing someone who hoped to see NFC and wireless recharge in his phone to a kid not getting everything he wanted. It could very well be that the kid asked for a dog, got an ant farm was disappointed. You're the father shouting "it's a pet dammit" when sure, it is, but missed the point that the features really wanted aren't fulfilled by the ants.

⬐ alayne

Apple hired Benjamin Vigier a few years ago. Their mobile payment solution is Passbook which is currently not NFC based.

⬐ enraged_camel

It's not stupid. When people are vested in an ecosystem, they want devices in that ecosystem to be able to satisfy their specific use cases. This is why I wanted a waterproof iPhone: I play a lot of water sports, and it would be awesome to not have to rely on a second device to take photos/videos. So, as a dedicated Apple user, I started imagining how I would use such a device. When it didn't come, I was disappointed.

Seriously, it's appalling that you are having trouble understanding this, and are strawmanning it down to "wanting a pony."

⬐ greedo

A waterproof iPhone is definitely the equivalent of a unicorn that shits Skittles.

If you seriously thought that was even a miniscule possibility with the iPhone 5, then you are in for a lot of disappointment.

⬐ Gigablah

A MacBook that fits in a manila envelope? Ha ha unicorns and rainbows!

⬐ cube13

Do you have any idea how hard it is to waterproof electronics? Not only do you need to keep water out of the device, but you also need to make sure that it can't collect anywhere and corrode away parts. There's a reason that hardened waterproof electronics are the way they are: big and heavy.

On the weekends, I go fly fishing. Full waders and everything. And I take my phone with me. In a plastic sandwich bag, which has kept the phone completely dry even after I accidentally submerged my bag. I could invest in a case if my phone spent more time in the water, but I don't feel the need to.

So yes, I understand your entire point, and yes, it IS pretty much down to wanting a pony.

⬐ enraged_camel

>>Do you have any idea how hard it is to waterproof electronics?

It is hard, but Apple has $117 billion in cash. They could make an elegant and waterproof smartphone if they wanted.

⬐ SnowLprd

Yes, and if a significantly large portion of the market was clamoring for a waterproof smartphone, Apple probably would make one.

⬐ enraged_camel

I believe it was Steve Jobs who said that people don't know what they want until you give it to them.

⬐ hammock

Samsung Galaxy S3, of course. And has for about four months now. NFC, wireless charging, quadcore processor, and a 4.8" screen all in a lighter, thinner package than the iPhone 5. EDIT I meant iPhone 4

⬐ mrharrison

Its not lighter. The galaxy s3, is also bulkier.

http://mashable.com/2012/09/12/iphone-5-compared/

⬐ wahsd

Depends on your definition of bulky. Considering it has a larger screen and all the other features mentioned, your argument is invalid. The GIIS has a larger, wider screen, three times the battery, and a microSD slot weighs only .7 oz more and will be getting jelly bean soon...dude, you're rationalizing. It's sad. I know, it hurts. But you have to grow up and realize that Apple is not a God. You can leave the cult. Dear Leader is dead.

⬐ awj

> Considering it has a larger screen and all the other features mentioned, your argument is invalid.

I'm not going to "leave the cult" if you're going to use the exact same kind of logic. From an objective (i.e. comparing sizes and weights) standpoint, the Galaxy is bulkier. From a "features important to wahsd / unit area" standpoint, it's much more space efficient. Neither of those points make his argument invalid.

⬐ randomdrake

The S3 weighs 4.7oz and is 8.6mm thick.

The iPhone 5 is 3.9oz and is 7.6mm thick.

The iPhone 5 is around 18% lighter and 12% thinner than the S3.

I often see people fumble with the S3, especially one-handed, so I'm not sure the size is a good thing.

⬐ jsz0

I definitely fumble my Galaxy Nexus on a regular basis. I can't quite accept I am unable to reach the top of the phone from my normal bottom grip so I stretch and stretch and try to balance it on my palm.

⬐ WayneDB

My wife, who has tiny hands and zero hand-eye coordination, operates the S3 without a problem.

I think confirmation bias may be affecting your anecdotal evidence.

⬐ randomdrake

It's only my observations of the few people I have seen interact with the S3. I haven't seen anyone operate it successfully or elegantly with one hand. Often I see people set it down on a surface and use it like a small tablet. Just observation. I have only seen a few people actually using the device.

⬐ elmuchoprez

Honestly, as an adult male (with adult male sized hands), a difference of 1 oz and 1mm seems insignificant to me. I suspect those measures are well within the variations caused by different cases. I suppose it could make a difference when the thing is in your pocket all day, but I'm not even sure about that.

The iP5 is clearly thinner and lighter, but does it matter? I don't know, not really to me. Maybe to women and kids.

⬐ kahawe

Sure when you look at the mm and g it seems ridiculous but 20% lighter, 33% slimmer and stronger hardware and battery? I don't think this is SO insignificant in terms of miniaturization. They are already extremely thin and light, then managed to reduce if yet again by a fifth and a third. And the variations for their parts are below tenth of 1mm.

⬐ randomdrake

Sorry. I should have been clearer. The length and width were the fumbling points I noticed. Not the weight or thickness.

⬐ thematt

New processor, new internals, new OS, new camera are all just expected upgrades at this point. Where's the innovation? That's what I'm expecting.

⬐ kahawe

> Where's the innovation?

Where was the innovation in the S2, S3 or the Nokia 920? And no, nfc nor wireless-charging don't really floor me. These are pretty small.

⬐ veemjeem

What about the reversible cable connector? When was the last time you had a cable that didn't require looking at the cable before plugging it in? I know it's not really an innovation, but I don't understand why all cables can only have one way of going in -- when you plug in your usb cable, it's not obvious that it's upside down. Nobody looks at their audio cable when they plug in earphones; why can't normal computer cables be like this?

It does take a little more circuitry to detect orientation, but it seems like it would be worth it for a connector that gets used a lot.

⬐ lovskogen

Since forever, audio jack cables (I'm 25).

⬐ checker

Digital cables, then?

⬐ ripperdoc

Optical SPDIF

⬐ vacri

It does take a little more circuitry to detect orientation

Which increases the price of small peripherals by a considerable amount.

⬐ igrekel

Yes... But the micro USB cable is interchangable between many devices. There is always one somewhere when you forgot yours.

Making it something completely new and unstandard and charge 30$ for an adaptor to everything up to your car that supported the old connector does not seem to be that much of an improvement. I see a lot of trouble in adopting the new iPhone and not many gains other than its faster lighter and lasts longer.

⬐ veemjeem

I think everyone understands the reasoning behind preferring micro usb, but why can't engineers consider users when designing a new connector? I feel like Apple is probably the only company who would go that extra mile to make cables user friendly -- I just don't see other companies making an effort to make cables friendlier to users. It's probably why Apple chose to design a connector themselves instead of choosing a universal standard.

⬐ mibbitier

> new connector

How is "new connector" a good thing? It's still not USB.

Looks like iPhone is playing catchup. How times change!

⬐ batista

>How is "new connector" a good thing? It's still not USB.

Well, it's smaller enabling the phone to be thinner, more durable design, can go in either side up, and it's faster.

>Looks like iPhone is playing catchup. How times change!

Catchup to what? Phones with USB chargers?

⬐ mibbitier

Name a feature the iPhone has, that say a Samsung S3 doesn't have.

There are several the S3 has that aren't there on an iPhone.

⬐ anon808

Features are a quantitative measure, until we invent some qualitative measures, these comparisons are worthless.

⬐ nhangen

Airplay

⬐ loumf

There are many. The easiest answer is being able to run iOS apps -- which for many overrides almost anything else. Another is deep integration with Macs and AppleTV -- that solves real problems for me that (for example) wireless charging does not -- it's better, but not along a vector I care about (i.e. would make a decision on or pay for).

Even just counting hardware, a giant battery and a much better processor enable a lot of use cases. Does the S3 have three mics, equivalent WIFI speed, as good a camera?

⬐ TheCapn

You're comparing brands and not features here.

1) iOS apps vs. Android apps is subjective

2) My Android has seamless integration to my Samsung TV and home media as well as laptop and PC via OSS apps and software. Again, we're debating branding at this point whether you want to say your AppleTV is better than my media solution, subjective.

Objectively your points about speed and camera are true though. I'm wont deny its a quick phone but I have to agree with others saying it didn't bring anything innovative or new.

⬐ loumf

Being able to run an app I want is a feature of my phone.

It's all subjective. Even if you have an objective, measurable difference (processor speed), that only matters if I value the difference (subjective) -- which I don't. The iPhone 4S is fast enough for me -- I can't make use of an improvement in speed.

I can make use of new iOS apps (and do on almost a daily basis). If there were apps I wanted that needed the iPhone 5 to run, that might persuade me. If a Samsung phone could run iOS apps, then I would choose based on price (probably).

If you don't agree, then of course, the iPhone isn't interesting. It's just a glass box with components without the apps. I wouldn't even have a smart phone at all without the App Store.

⬐ Steko

"iOS apps vs. Android apps is subjective"

True but saying The Dark Knight is better then Clooney Batman is also a subjective judgement. Despite being a subjective judgement, if an overwhelming number of reasonable people agree with something you can comfortably assert it.

"didn't bring anything innovative or new"

Well console quality graphics will certainly be new if they deliver on this.

Wideband audio + beamforming promises superior telephone performance which the iphone has always been sort of meh at. I'm only aware of one phone each that brings either of those (latest evo has HD audio and HTC one has beamforming) and none that have both

⬐ css771

> if an overwhelming number of reasonable people agree with something you can comfortably assert it

So you're saying even if the majority is wrong, they're always right?

⬐ Steko

"majority" =/= "overwhelming number"

"always right" =/= "comfortably assert"

Nice demonstration of how to construct a straw man though.

⬐ css771

It's the same principle and you're using it to suppport your subjective claims as fact.

⬐ sp332

I'm not sure about real-life speeds, but the iPhone's 802.11n is the bare-minimum 1 antenna, 1 channel version. Even my 3-year old laptop has a 300 Mbps chip built in.

⬐ Steko

Cmon man, besides the fact that it's thinner, lighter, sturdier, has a higher density screen, a better screen technology, better graphics performance, better phone quality, a better camera, better media ecosystem, better apps, and will get timely & regular OS updates for several years what else have the Cupertinians done for us lately?

⬐ WayneDB

A list of barely perceptible (and some unproven) differences won't help Apple as the market share steadily trends away from them.

I like to keep it simple. Larger screen, faster processor, expandable storage, Flash, Google Navigation, freedom to from Apple's draconian grip...take my money Samsung!

It's no wonder Apple is suing. They know they're playing catch-up.

⬐ lumisota

Sorry.. Flash? I think the market pretty much gave its opinion on that one.

⬐ WayneDB

The value judgement on Flash wasn't the point. The point is that I can do what I want to regardless of someone else's value judgement.

And I'm far from alone. Over a half million people downloaded it from Google's app store and I'm sure that just as many have put it onto their phone without going through the store. - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.adobe.flas...

⬐ will_work4tears

I hate Apple (as a company) with the passion of 10,000 suns, but I gotta agree, I hate flash even more.

⬐ loumf

They are getting all of the profit share (and actually increasing market share slightly). In the long term, if you take all the profits, others can't compete unless they do so asymmetrically (make profit some other way). No one has shown that they are doing this yet -- Google and Amazon have plays, but I don't see how Samsung can do this -- they need to make profit from the phone, and they don't make enough to compete long-term.

⬐ tesseractive

Phones with larger screens, widescreen, higher resolution (1280x720 is common now), NFC, and LTE. Like last year's Galaxy Nexus and the HTC One X and Galaxy S 3 that have been out for months.

The Nokia 920 announced last week has all of that too, plus wireless charging, and a genuine leap forward in camera technology for phones.

Apple is under no obligation to match anyone feature for feature, but for people who follow phones of various types, it seems bizarre and somewhat frustrating the way new iPhones get vastly outsized publicity for devices that are increasingly becoming trailing indicators of where the mobile industry is going.

⬐ jsz0

increasingly becoming trailing indicators of where the mobile industry is going

They are however very good implementations of where the industry currently is.

⬐ sp332

A large screen is not always a feature. You can type on an iPhone screen with one thumb, I couldn't comfortably manage that on my old Evo 4G. The DPI is the same as last year's iPhone, basically identical with the Lumia 920 due out later this year (330 vs 332).

⬐ barista

yet the dpi on iPhone gets touted like its the greatest one made ever!

⬐ sp332

It almost was at the time, I think only 2 phones had been produced with higher DPI before, and the iPhone blew them away on color gamut, viewing angles, etc.

⬐ icefox

No more putting in the connector upside down

⬐ HarshaThota

> NFC and wireless charging? Who promised you that? And who delivers those at the moment?

I believe the new Lumia 920 by Nokia has both NFC and wireless charging. Not that those alone make one better than the other but just pointing out that they do exist.

⬐ will_work4tears

NFC: http://www.nfcworld.com/nfc-phones-list/#available Wireless charging: Lumia http://mashable.com/2012/09/05/nokia-wireless-charging/

⬐ bergie

Didn't some of the old webOS devices have wireless charging as well?

⬐ camiller

c /some/all/

All the webOS devices had wireless charging (although with the earlier ones you had to buy a replacement back cover)

But no NFC

⬐ mpclark

Everybody delivers NFC in their high-end handsets now.

http://www.nfcworld.com/nfc-phones-list/

⬐ tomelders

Why are people clamouring for NFC? What are people doing with it that I don't know about! Is there some magical dimension I'm not privy to where NFC is everywhere?

⬐ mpclark

Yes, the magical dimension is short way forward along the 't' axis. There are a whole bunch of big NFC programmes being lined up in various countries, many backed by multiple mobile networks. In the US Isis is looking interesting and in the UK there is Project Oscar. France has Cityzi.

NFC is set to permeate many aspects of our lives, including payments, access control, transportation ticketing. It also enables some neat new marketing possibilities.

Right now the industry is solving the much talked about 'chicken and egg' situation by getting NFC handsets out there. High end phones shipping without NFC are now a rarity (which is why I'm disappointed tonight) and things are getting into position for the technology being revealed with a splash and folks finding that their existing handsets already have the right hardware that allows them to be part of the big new thing.

In short, you should be looking for NFC in your next handset not because it will be useful today or tomorrow, but because you'll be wanting it during the 18-24 month lifetime of the phone.

⬐ Steko

There is no guarantee that what's being put in phones today is going to be necessary or compatible with what ends up "winning" mobile payments. Notably last month a group of major retailers (walmart/target/711/sears/best buy...) announced they are going to push what sounds like a non-chip solution.

⬐ mpclark

The MCX solution doesn't yet sound like anything and I believe it is simply a gun that is being brought along in case there is a fight over merchant fees.

There is a huge amount of work going on all over the world on putting NFC into place. It's not very visible yet, but it is happening. Notably, hardware is being quietly rolled out on both the user and merchant side. It's always possible something else might 'win' in the end, but I'd say it is increasingly unlikely...

⬐ tomelders

How do I pay for something with NFC when I'm actually on the phone? And how do I pay for something if I don't have my phone. Or if my phone is out of charge. Genuine questions by the way.

If anything, it makes more sense to have NFC in a card. I'm not sure how convenient it is to have a method of payment that can run out of battery.

⬐ 18pfsmt

NFC, as it was originally envisioned, was supposed to allow for use even when the phone was without power just as the cards today are without power. In traditional RFID technology, from which NFC was derived, there was a powered transceiver (aka reader) and non-powered transponder (aka card). The promise of NFC was to be able to have a transceiver and transponder in one, where the power is derived from the inductive coupling of the antennae. You can see this by reviewing the ISO documents for ISO 14443 (RFID) and ISO 18092/ 21481 (NFC).

⬐ Maxious

"David Lindberg, Executive General Manager at Commonweath Bank, shared his vision of what the future may look like and the very probably demise of ‘cash’. Already more than 50% of transactions at 7-Elevens use contactless payment methods. Only three years ago, less than one percent of financial transactions were done via a mobile phone, yet this month in Australia there will be more financial transactions completed via mobile phone than on the internet." https://innovation.govspace.gov.au/2012/09/12/an-optimistic-...

⬐ kahawe

Neither credit card nor ATM-cards managed to get rid of cash. Honest question: why should NFC-paying and what does it have to offer more when compared to just using your CC or ATM card?

⬐ Geee

Check out Nokia's accessories for Lumia 920. All of them pair with NFC and some of them even charge the phone. Without cables or connectors. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4zx2xy6VjE

⬐ tomelders

That's great. But um... I can't use NFC anywhere, and I sometimes like to use my phone when it's plugged into the charger.

So that's not such a great set of features for me. In fact, it's actually worse.

⬐ quaunaut

Name for me one brand new feature. This is a product update, this isn't deserving of a new version number, and it certainly isn't "the biggest thing to happen to the iphone since iphone".

This isn't to say it's a bad device, just infinite hype for zero payoff.

⬐ m_eiman

Let's compare this to the changes in Samsung Galaxy S3 compared to the S2:

- Slightly larger screen - Faster CPU - Improved camera - Added LTE - Faster Wifi - Added NFC - Added a couple of sensors - Better battery life - Heavier

Not a whole lot different from the iPhone changelist, and I bet it's not a whole lot different from any other phone maker's changelist between generations either.

⬐ tjoff

Let's compare the time-frame.

Last time the iPhone had such a changelist was in june 2010. The S2 came out 12 months prior to the S3.

When you only release one phone every 24 months people are right to expect more.

That, or you could compare the S2 with S3 against the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S...

⬐ kahawe

But Samsung didn't deliver any magic in the S3 - and what could Apple have delivered as a super-duper-WOW feature? I cannot think of any technologies out there that they haven't squeezed in there yet and I don't think "wireless charging" is anything to really care about, novelty and "OMG!" factor aside. Adding NFC would have also been just catching up and personally, I cannot see the benefit from NFC and it looks like Apple can't either.

So what is left then? What COULD they have added to floor people? Nuclear reactor? Drones? I cannot think of anything.

⬐ bratsche

Why does every new phone have to be a fucking revolution? It's a better phone than the last one. If you're not impressed, don't buy one.

⬐ mtgx

Did you see the live keynote? At the end and thoughout it, they kept saying how revolutionary it is.

⬐ corporalagumbo

It's not about phones. People want to be distracted from everyday life. "Revolutionary" tech releases satisfy that need, especially for a slice of society which is both intellectual and a bit manic-depressive. It's sad, but for a lot of these people, new phones/tech are the only real things they have to show off/feel excited about/have strong opinions on/argue about/dream about. It's fundamentally about fantasy, and the reaction you see today is what happens when reality fails to satisfy that fantasy.

⬐ rodion_89

  > Why does every new phone have to be a fucking revolution?

I completely agree.

But Apple has a habit of making it seem like everything they do is revolutionary. It's very good marketing.

  > Apple reinvents the phone [1]

  > This changes everything. Again.

  > The biggest thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone

  > A magical and revolutionary device at an unbelievable price

  > Resolutionary

Again, I agree with you. But what I'm getting at is that Apple's brand of marketing creates a lot of hype and I'm sure they like it that way.

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20070113215301/http://apple.com

⬐ acomar

What I don't get is why the comments of "meh" are getting attacked with so much vitriol.

⬐ cheap

Dear Mister Obvious,

Every marketing team ever has created hype. Ever.

⬐ freyr

Right. And when Apple creates hype, people for some reason buy into it. In droves.

I don't understand why so many people blame Apple for this.

⬐ rodion_89

  > people for some reason buy into it

It's not just "some" reason. They have one of the best marketing departments in the world who do an excellent job.

  > I don't understand why so many people blame Apple for this.

I'm blaming Apple for doing a damn good job of marketing their products.

⬐ evan_

> Name for me one brand new feature.

LTE

⬐ morsch

That's just an implementation detail of an improvement of an existing feature.

⬐ r00fus

That kind of thinking would have said that the WWW was just a slight improvement over gopher back in the 90's.

⬐ morsch

I'm not sure what you mean. 3.5G to LTE is a simple improvement along a one-dimensional axis - bandwidth. Maybe two metrics, if you want to account for the latency improvement. There are no such straightforward metrics for comparing Gopher and WWW. So no, that kind of thinking does not arrive at WWW being a slight improvement over Gopher.

That's not to say incremental improvements to existing features, such as LTE, can't be reason enough to sell a device (note that wasn't the question, though). As others have pointed out, though, Edge to 3G felt like a more significant step than 3G to LTE, though, just as 56k to 1 Mbit DSL felt like a more significant step than 1 MBit to 16 Mbit or 16 Mbit to 50 Mbit.

⬐ pooriaazimi

Then wireless charging and NFC could be counted as mere improvements (of existing features, i.e. cable charging and scanning barcodes) too!

⬐ camiller

Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication. You are comparing galaxies to apples ;)

As an android (GS3) user I would have liked the iPhone to get NFC (and NFC based mobile payments) for the simple reason that the more phones capable of NFC payments the more merchants are likely to support it which benefits all of us (or at least all of us interested in paying for things with our phones).

The same argument would hold true for wireless charging, but it would probably be unlikely for Apple to adopt the emerging "Qi" wireless charging standard and instead roll it's own.

⬐ pooriaazimi

I think Apple is betting heavily on PassBook, which I think is superior to NFC, but would eventually fail if it's not an open standard (and even if it was open, Google and others would never use it because not using it would hurt Apple more). Maybe they should've integrated PassBook with NFC...

I think their decision to go with PassBook will backfire (like Thunderbolt did - It's even more niche than Mac itself!) and they'll add NFC in iPhone 6 like they added USB3 support.

That said, I'm not in a market that either of these technologies are likely to be used in the foreseeable future (5-10 years), so I personally don't care one way or another :) NFC/PassBook catching on just make me more jealous!

⬐ Steko

I don't think they are betting heavily against NFC or that passbook is superior to NFC. I think Apple sees more profit potential in leveraging Apple IDs for payment and they are cautiously hoping it will take off faster then NFC but won't hesitate to swap NFC chips in if that starts to see widespread adoption.

⬐ evan_

> Well, to be fair, NFC is capable of two way communication where scanning a barcode is one way communication.

OK, then NFC is just a slightly improved Wifi+Bonjour.

⬐ bduerst

Exactly. I was really looking forward to p2p payments over NFC phones.

⬐ fleitz

You could use the front facing camera and display a barcode on the iPhone screen. Voila NFC.

I know I'm going to take down votes for this, but for 90% of the population NFC is a solution in search of a problem. For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine. NFC isn't a 10X better payment solution. Most people have to carry something on them to carry cards, drivers licenses, etc in which they will place their payment card. Instead of fiddling with your wallet, now you're fiddling with your phone.

NFC is as silly as using bump for payments.

⬐ camiller

Fair enough, but there are at least some point of sale systems that have NFC already, I have yet to see a system that is set up to display a barcode for the phone to read and then read a barcode on the phone (without moving the phone).

⬐ jarek

> For most people cash, credit, or debit work just fine.

Phones worked just fine for most people in 2006. Phones' screens were just fine in 2009...

Paypass and Paywave are a considerable improvement over chip and PIN or singing a slip of paper. Faster, less fumbling. Necessary, no; an improvement, yes.

⬐ fleitz

Ok... lets rehash...

The iPhone was a 10X improvement over what was out there, if you upgraded your whole phone experience got better.

Retina was a 4X improvement (4X as many pixels) after looking at retina the 3GS looked ugly, if you upgraded your entire phone experience got better.

Now lets take a look at what happens if you get an NFC phone, you still have to take your wallet, and then you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC. 95% of the time you're going to be taking out your wallet. It's not a 10X improvement therefore adoption will be slow.

And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash. I'm actually starting to go away from any payment system that isn't cash, because cash is universally accepted, even the Olympics takes cash.

If NFC was on par with the aforementioned features it would be in the new phone.

⬐ jarek

> you have to ask everyone whether their payment system supports NFC.

Have you ever used Paypass? The readers are pretty conspicuous, large pad above the chip card reader, no need to ask just like you don't need to ask if someone takes cards when you see the reader.

> And it still doesn't work when the power is out unlike cash.

Sure, and phones don't work when the cellular network is down, unlike shouting. But the last time I was unable to pay with a card because power or network were down was in 2010 and that's the only instance I can actually remember since, like, 2005.

Let's not get into the parts where POSes will probably go down too if power goes out...

⬐ fleitz

You know, after reading your post I have to agree that yes, NFC being vulnerable to the same problems as it's alternatives makes it 10X better.

I'm sure any day now Apple will come out with NFC in the iPhone 5S as they realize they've missed out on a huge opportunity.

Please pay no attention to the ticketing app of which they will probably take a 30% cut. NFC is where the money's at which is why people have stopped buying iPhones and are instead only buying phones with NFC.

I just tossed my wallet, 4S, debit/credit cards, and cash into the garbage, now I just carry around my Galaxy Nexus looking for someone who wants to me to beam them bitcoins. I'm looking forward to walking 5 KM to get to a grocery store to buy food now that I can't drive (my drivers license just got revoked because the police won't accept a picture of it) and theres no where to sell me food in < 5KM (they don't support NFC).

NFC really does change everything, it's a whole new way of living.

⬐ jarek

Your reactions are amusingly similar to reactions people had to touchscreen phones before the touchscreens became good. Yes, of course, take away my keyboard, I'll just type my BBMs on shitty glass! Those damn touchscreens, a solution in search of a problem.

As a point of interest I can buy food with NFC within a 12 minute walk, and I don't even have an NFC phone.

⬐ fleitz

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head, my reactions to NFC before it became good is the same reaction I had to touchscreens before they became good.

The reason why the iPhone was revolutionary wasn't because it had a touch screen it was because it didn't suck. When NFC stops sucking I'll stop saying it sucks.

I thought bump was awesome too, then I realized how inconvenient it was. I could hand you a business card, or I could fiddle with my phone, show you how to download the app, etc. NFC is bump with out the bumping. It's still too fiddly.

The iPaq, Newtown, Palm Pilot, and the Android G1 were solutions in search of a problem just like the current incantation of NFC is.

⬐ jarek

> When NFC stops sucking I'll stop saying it sucks.

Have you used a mainstream credit card NFC payment system such as Paypass or Paywave? What did you think sucked about it?

Have you used a mobile device NFC payment system such as Google Wallet? What did you think sucked about it?

⬐ jsz0

it certainly isn't "the biggest thing to happen to the iphone since iphone"

If you look at the changes between previous models it really is. Just about every single component has been upgraded. There have never been this many changes at once in an iPhone. The 3GS->4 upgrade comes close but when you get into the sort of second tier of features the 4S->5 list is quite a bit longer. If you're judging it by significance of the upgrades that may be a little different. I think the 3GS->4 still wins out there. On the raw numbers though the 4S->5 simply has more changes.

⬐ kisielk

I think people complaining about the tag line are missing out on the obvious pun.

⬐ think-large

>Name for me one brand new feature.

Navigation App

⬐ wahsd

Third party apps exist and it's in no way a new feature. Next thing you know you'll call Angry Birds a new feature if they ship it with the phone.

⬐ Steko

I'm not aware of any phone shipping this month that's a true Cortex A15 device. There are a lot of Krait phones, but that's a half step away.

⬐ branchan

This isn't deserving of a new version number? Tell me, how many Samsung Android devices are there?

⬐ batista

"infinite hype"? Where? They announced an event, the day came, they announced the product. A slogan like that on the product announcement/product page, does not amount to "infinite hype".

If you want to see "infinite hype", check the Microsoft Courier and other hypeware, in which videos were made, the press touted it for months, it was announced to be "the future" and nothing came of it.

"Zero payoff"? Really? It's an amazing device to upgrade to, after your 2-year contract ends, even if it doesn't have magic unicorn powers. It's the best iPhone YET made, period, I don't think someone can argue against that (and no, it's not a guarantee with any product update to be better than the last one).

Your response amounts to the proverbial: "No wireless, less space than a Nomad. Lame".

>Name for me one brand new feature

"Brand new" is used here to preempt any mention of the tons of incremental improvements?

⬐ pavanky

>It's the best iPhone YET made, period.

I think what is pissing most people off is that up until iphone 4 (not 4s), the iphone was arguably the best smart phone around. 4s and 5 have been improvements to the iphone but have not added anything over its competitors. Most of the competitors can do what the iphone 5 does and more (such as NFC and / or wireless charging).

Bottom line: There is no reason to stick with the iphone 5 other than "I am stuck in the eco system", or "I love apple" or "It is good enough". The "better than the others" argument doesn't fly anymore.

⬐ kayoone

what about that 90% of 3rd party apps have a much higher quality on iOS ? (Disclaimer: i own an android device)

⬐ greedo

And NFC/wireless charging automatically makes them better than the iPhone 5?

⬐ will_work4tears

Open, let's not forget open. So yeah, marginally.

⬐ pavanky

I said they do more, and most top of the line phones from other manufacturers have them. Even if it does not make the other phones better, lacking those features only makes it worse.

⬐ quaunaut

Every previous iPhone had a new feature that was a pretty BFD. This is the first without.

⬐ roc

Funny, I seem to recall that the disillusioned techie reaction to the 4S was that it was also a non-update. Same shell. Modest internal updates and the only feature of note (Siri) was panned as an app that Apple bought that merely caught it up to other phones that already had voice control.

⬐ wmf

One problem with the 4S was the rumors of an iPhone 5 with a tapered design. (If you Googled for iPhone it would autocomplete "iPhone 5" — I guess bad rumors are now self-reinforcing.) At least this time the rumors were accurate and people can't complain that they were expecting more.

⬐ jaxn

Larger screen is a "new feature" since we are talking about hardware. LTE would be a new feature as well. Not having a big piece of glass on the back seems like a new feature too (my iPhone 4S has had a cracked back for a couple of months). I know this may seem silly, but a new dock connector that is symmetrical and is easier to plug in without looking is a new feature as well. Also, something about a panorama camera, but I wouldn't call that a BFD)

⬐ tabbyjabby

What was the the big feature of the iPhone 3GS?

⬐ Steko

The S really was the feature. Besides the performance bump for everything (e.g. loading web pages twice as fast) it let you run a class of apps you simply couldn't only earlier iphones (e.g. unreal engine).

Other then that copy and paste and enough memory to keep more then 2 tabs open in safari were what I remember.

⬐ loumf

For me it was that my original iPhone contract was finally up and I could get 3G. Is that the one with gyroscope? -- Jobs playing Jenga during the keynote?

⬐ antirez

When 3GS was released, it was an evolution of a 3G that was still at light years from competitors.

⬐ josephlord

It was the first I bought but key features it hit included tethering, stereo bluetooth support, compass (and maybe improved GPS) and performance.

The 5 seems like a solid step. I don't see the need to upgrade every year but if you compare back to the 4 rather than the 4S the performance should be a massive jump. Support for 5GHz wifi could mean a real speed boost too and the bigger screen should be nice.

⬐ unfoldedorigami

LTE

⬐ arrrg

The S variants certainly didn’t – and this adds more than every S variant ever did.

Looking at the construction, the 3G was never something to write home about. The technology forced Apple's hand and they had to make that plastic monster. Acceptable, not great. Like the 5, the 3G improved every aspect of its predecessor and it added 3G.

The 5 is just like the 3G – only that this time around the construction is at least on par or better (likely, looking at first hand ons, still, only speculation at this point) than that of the predecessor. It’s also, quite obviously, less fragile. So Apple has done much more on the construction front, but the jump from 3G to LTE is also arguably not as important than the jump from Edge to 3G.

Looking at the specs and comparing them with other phones you get the same picture you always got. It’s a wash. Those kinds of comparisons never mattered.

In conclusion: no 3GS to 4 jump, but certainly a 1 to 3G jump.

Also a familiar sight since the 3G, geeks are disappointed, the phone sells faster than Apple can make it.

This phone is no surprise. It’s Apple doing what they have always done.

⬐ 3am_hackernews

Faster, slimmer, lighter and longer lasting - yes, these are really good updates in a small piece of equipment that iPhone 5 is, there's no denying that.

But what really irks me is the way Apple marketing team is hyping it up - "This is the best <insert iDevice> we have ever made!", "This is revolutionary!", "This will change everything you were doing before!"... A slathering of these so often during the entire event and then on with their advertisements makes me cringe and shake my head with disappointment. This iPhone and the iPod[x] are pretty much an iteration and minor upgrade, not what the actual 'revolutionary' things were - iTouch, iPhone, iPad, retina display, etc.

I don't expect 'revolutionary' every year or any time, I just expect some sincerity announcing.

⬐ jshen

"This is revolutionary!"

Did they say this?

⬐ tomelders

Yeah you're right, they should get up on stage in front of the worlds media and say "It's an OK iPhone. You know, not great great, but pretty good... pffffft, we really could do better but hey ho, here's the new iPhone".

Are you an idiot?

And it is the best iPhone they've ever made. And the iPhone is arguably the best phone out there, so they sort of have a fair bit of credibility when they say that stuff.

⬐ 3am_hackernews

I would like to ask your criteria for deciding the best phone.

A few years ago, yes the iPhone was the best in specs and had the most innovative and unique features. I don't think it holds true any more.

⬐ gizzlon

A better question is maybe: Will it be the best in 10 months?

⬐ batista

How is that a better question? Do you need one NOW, or in 10 months? In 10 months we'll be waiting for the iPhone 6 anyway...

⬐ gizzlon

Since they only release once a year, this one doesn't only have to hold its own against the competition right now, but also against whatever the others put out in 10 months.

Yeah, some people will always wait for the next iPhone. But for others, who have a more "neutral" point of view, this iPhone might look very bad in 10 months.

⬐ tomelders

But that's the same for all phones.

⬐ gizzlon

True, but if you look at it like Apple vs Android, the Android camp has many releases a year. So if you're a consumer and you're buying a smartphone in 10 months, your choice is between the "outdated" iPhone or one of the latest Android phones.

⬐ batista

Criteria?

1) Construction (machining, materials, fitting them inside the case, industrial design). Unparalleled.

2) Screen. Top notch (high dpi, improved saturation).

3) Camera. One of the best in the business. Tons of apps for it, even photo books and indie movies videos done with it.

4) Apps ecosystem. Unparalleled in number and quality.

5) OS. Mature, not laggy, full featured, designed with far more coherence than Android and far more functionality in mind than just modernist design compared to Metro.

6) OS Upgrades. You do not even get any with most Android phones. And don't happen to the new Windows mobile os version.

7) Peripherals ecosystem: from health tracking devices, to tripods, to MIDI, unparalleled.

8) No carrier branded bullshit (apps, look etc): priceless.

9) Support ecosystem: Applestores etc. Top notch.

10) Resale value: high.

⬐ tomelders

"arguably the best phone"- I left room in there for other peoples opinions.

But as to why I think it's the best phone? The Eco system, it looks good and it's works seamlessly with all my other stuff.

⬐ philsnow

I don't follow this stuff closely, but isn't that what they said when they announced the 3gs and the 4s ? There isn't anything really new in the phone they announced today, so it's more like a 4ss than a 5.

Unless they're going the linux kernel route and changing their version numbering ;)

⬐ notimetorelax

Please try to refrain from ad hominem attacks. It doesn't help in any way to prove your point.

⬐ tomelders

no, because it clearly does help to articulate my point.

⬐ milesokeefe

how?

⬐ Rygu

http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. E.g. "That is an idiotic thing to say; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

⬐ ceol

It's almost like the keynote was specifically made to market a product or something...

⬐ kahawe

> Name for me one brand new feature

I don't understand all the negative reactions - name one brand new and truly "wowing" feature the new Galaxy brought to the table? Pretty much all modern smartphones are at the technological cutting-edge and I cannot think of much they could possible squeeze into those things. You already have all sorts of sensors and pretty much all connectivity options you could possibly want and it can do frakking 3D games in the palm of your hand too and play music and videos and etc.

NFC could be interesting but I am happy enough with paying with my CCs or directly playing with my ATM card in a LOT of stores here in Europe. I don't see what paying-over-NFC could do for me. And wireless charging? Sounds incredible and very "sexy" for the average user but really, very "meh" for me. You still going to have to plug something in somewhere... I could not care less.

I can understand people feel a little disappointed but really, what was everyone expecting??? ALL current smartphones were just relatively small updates to existing models. Everyone is doing the "xx% slimmer/lighter/longer/bigger" increments and has been for some time now. There was no "paradigm shift" in ANY one of them. What were people hoping Apple would do... add a nuclear reactor or some drones or what?

⬐ batista

>Every previous iPhone had a new feature that was a pretty BFD. This is the first without.

Larger screen. It's a BFD for some people, for they have been tearing their hearts out at forums for ages how Android has that and the iPhone doesn't.

And 3G -> 3GS didn't bring anything to the table. Or 4 to 4S for that matter, considering that Siri was already available as an app.

⬐ podperson

Most cellphone makers will come up with a new product name or number because someone sneezed at the factory, and you're complaining that Apple went from 4 to 5 in two years merely because they improved every single aspect of the phone? Gee. Tough crowd.

There are lots of 'print bureaus' now that render metal. Anyone can do it. The raw parts can be polished, machined, etc.

And the reaction is - abundant negative comments. Everything is amazing, and nobody is happy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ Devilboy

Naysaying is what HN is all about! We just prefer to call it 'criticism'. We like to say 'HA! I see a FLAW in your work here, that means I'm smarter than you!'

⬐ buro9

Indeed.

Here are some nice titanium drops 3D printed for a bicycle in mass production: http://road.cc/content/feature/63359-exclusive-printing-tita...

More of this happens than people realise. I remember seeing those drops and wondered how they did it given the temperatures that you need to have to work titanium.

Maybe it doesn't work as well as we want it to on the fringes. Maybe, just maybe, there are bugs in their software. I know, it's hard to fathom, bugs in software. Google is not immune to this just because they're Google. The fact that everybody seems to think they are entitled to perfectly working free software products is an amazing testament to the quality of what they produce.

Google products are in fact written by humans, and are therefore imperfect. It will have bugs. So let's all rein in the misplaced outrage and reflect on all the amazing stuff Google provides to us, free of charge.

Then, please go watch this Louis CK clip, and then re-evaluate whether this is worth a blog post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

> The communist anti-capitalism rhetoric

Black and white much? This idea that everything that's anti-capitalist or anti-stupid-ways-we-spend-money is communist is absurd.

The anti-capitalism rhetoric of the "mid-1900's" was a full-on propaganda campaign put out by government agencies and supported by the very real threat of nuclear total annihilation. Comparing a complaint about the stupid ways we spend money and organize our priorities to the Cold War is a bit of a stretch. I fear communist comparisons are becoming the new Godwin's law.

In reality, the guilt mentality discussed above is much more similar to the ultra-realist perspective of the comedy of Louis CK— http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk —in that it is ridiculous that we have the immediate concerns that we do, but is, in fact, entirely true, and it's observant and useful to point that out.

It is not, however, communist.

⬐ 1point618

So, in the mid-1900's there was this thing called Communism. It was a real thing, practiced in many different countries self-consciously. One of the tenants of Communism as it was practiced was that capitalism was bad, and one of the things that Communist countries did was to release anti-capitalist propaganda. So when today we talk about communist anti-capitalist rhetoric, we're not calling all anti-capitalist rhetoric communist, but rather referring to that particular subset of anti-capitalist rhetoric which was, indeed, communist.

This does not mean that such arguments are not straw manning the issue. However, it does mean that they're more nuanced than whatever the argument is that you're trying to debate with above.

⬐ NSMeta

Excuse me for a one-off useless comment, but a Communist country never existed. USSR was not communist.

Communism is being described as "A communist society would have no governments, countries, or class divisions."[1] Hence, no rulers. Communism in its essence is a form of Anarchist society.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Etymology_and_termino...

⬐ chwahoo

For most idealistic -isms, I doubt any implementation could exist that would satisfy the -ism's true believers (particularly since those implementations would have flaws that would need to be disclaimed).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Honest about what? Guilt?

Should we, as humans, crawl back into our caves and claim resource limitations as the cause? Claim greed was our downfall? Claim that this was all just too much for the human race?

I might be a romantic, but it seems to me that focusing on ways to make all peoples lives better is what we should continue to do. We should be technologically solving that which has plagued humanity the most: limited energy and resources.

We shouldn't be spending our time focusing on conservation. We should be focusing on how to make conservation un-necessary. Only then, will poverty go away.

Maybe, just maybe, the ideas like mining asteroids, fusion, nano-technology, and AI, just to name a few, are silly. However, they are a lot less silly than creating artificial centrally planed markets like carbon offsets to alleviate poverty.

That being said I leave this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk .

That Louis C. K. bit helps me out in such situations. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

"And then when you ran out of money, you'd just go, 'Well, I can't do any more things now.'"

I think your post was tongue-in-cheek, and it is maybe one of my favorite HN posts ever. That said, I get a little bummed that there are no Back to the Future 2-style hoverboards, that I don't have a personal flying car, and that I still have to shower every day. I'd love a polymorphic phone screen, and am bummed that this display isn't that. Just out of curiosity, I rubbed some Vaseline in my ear just now, and must admit that it is more of a bummer than the lack of polymorphic phone screens.

"Everything is amazing, and nobody's happy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Your comment made me think of "Everything is Amazing & Noone is Happy": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ ithkuil

Your comment made me think of "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." (George Bernard Shaw)

While I completely agree with Luis C.K, I also like when somebody actually propose something cool to create.

I think Louis CK said it best, "Everything is amazing and nobody's happy."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Sorry but Social mobile local (or as people cooler than me are calling it, SoMoLo) is still pretty new. You're just going to have to "suffer" through a little more.

I get the author's point that it seems like the same things are getting made and funded over and over. But with only about 1/2 the U.S. pop. owning smartphones, you can't blame people too much for trying to stake their claim. Anything more innovative might be too early anyways.

OP has a point. Not a f*cing important point, but a point. UIs can and should be faster, Adobe and MS are slow to catch on with current user expectations, and splash screens are annoying relics of a bygone era of bloated desktop UIs.

Agreed.

But in the end, to me it's just one more instance of Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

I guess I just don't get the tone. Why the righteous indignation? This not Human Rights we're talking about, it's software.

⬐ diggum

Splash screens aren't there for the vanity of the development team - they provide immediate visual feedback to the user that the application is loading any necessary libraries.

I'm also at Adobe and my team recently performed a ground-up re-write of our application. Minimizing start-up time was a high priority item and we did as much as we could to reduce it, but file importers/exporters, codecs, and some plug-ins need to be validated and loaded at some point - would you rather have these costs as one-time, up-front fees or scattered throughout the application as a thousand tiny cuts every time you open some menu command or function that requires these libraries?

But even so, professional desktop applications are not the same as lightweight mobile apps which tend to perform a limited set of tasks through a specific workflow. To compare the two is unfair and and bit clueless. And he brings up OS startup time, as if it doesn't take a LONG time for my Android or iOS devices to boot up - and they have less excuses as the hardware is pretty standard and fixed unlike my desktop machines.

I think his rant about wasted time is valid, but misguided. There's more time wasted navigating non-intuitive interfaces or poorly laid-out common controls. There a lot more time wasted when an application you rely on to do your job doesn't offer the functionality or freedom of workflow to accomplish what you need.

⬐ pslam

> Splash screens aren't there for the vanity of the development team - they provide immediate visual feedback to the user that the application is loading any necessary libraries.

How is that useful to a user? How many users even know what a "library" is? It might as well have a status bar announcing "Doing TECH thing 1 of 50...."

It seems to me that a splash screen is just a diversion: showing the user just how much Really Important Stuff it's doing hides the fact that they're basically being told to Please Wait. You're trying to make it look exciting, when the truth is it's just getting in the way.

It might as well just splash with "PLEASE WAIT" with no progress bar and no status. It has the same utility.

⬐ jiggy2011

A progress bar at least let's you know that the software hasn't crashed or got stuck in an infinite loop.

when I read this I instantaneously thought about this rant from Louis CK [Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Linux Mint and Windows 7 take 10 seconds to boot on my laptop with a SSD. That's amazing. Just a few months ago I would go make a sandwich while my PC would boot. If you have a problem with splash screens alt tab to the browser of your choice. If you think your PC boots to slow take out your smartphone and play with it. This is not to say developers should be wasteful with users time. Especially web developers know how import page speed is. But it's a complex program just give it a few SECONDS.

Also one should mention Steam (the game distribution platform). If you are bored in between rounds you just bring up the steam panel and use the embedded browser to browse the web or chat with friends. But those at times minute long delays. Sure you could embed a email client in the OS the comes up long before the main GUI is loaded but you wont get to read much in 10 seconds.

The word you're looking for is not "stupid" but rather "spoiled". People in first-world countries are spoiled to their bones. They take EVERYTHING for granted. Which is why they don't have the patience to read explanations why Wikipedia is down. They just want Wikipedia and they want it right now.

This comedian, Luis CK captures it much better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

I kind of feel sorry for this guy. "Hate" is such a strong word though he probably didn't really mean it.

He just picked out all the negative things about a smartphone and nothing else.

Would he rather carry a laptop for driving navigation? How about a standalone digital camera to take a picture?

This reminded me of this video:

Everything's Amazing & Nobody's Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ antrover

In my case, I have a Garmin for GPS, which is much more reliable than any phone GPS I've used.

If you compare the quality of a point and shoot digital camera vs a smart phone, the digital camera will blow it out of the water. For me, it's about the quality of the photo, not the convenience.

We're lucky to have choices. That's the beauty of it.

⬐ suivix

Garmins can't use Google to look up obscure locations or fix all your typos.

⬐ nknight

On the other hand, they don't ducking cause any ducking typos!

⬐ mbreese

> If you compare the quality of a point and shoot digital camera vs a smart phone

My rule of thumb is that the best camera is the one you have with you. Seeing as I always have my iPhone with me, it's been the camera I go to most. I don't even know where my digital point and shoot is anymore.

⬐ antrover

Well, like I said, it's good to have choices. I carry around a point and shoot all the time. There's always one in the car. There's also one in my laptop bag. I routinely have a DSLR near me 90% of the time... then again, I'm a bit of a photography nut. That might explain it :)

I guess I'm an "audiophile" when it comes to photos.

I also have a hard time dealing with 192kbps mp3s. That damn cymbal compression sound is like nails on a chalk board.

⬐ majorlazer

If you can tell the difference between 192kbps and 320kbps in a blind test, I would say that is impressive.

I'm a musician and I have a few "audiophile" friends that say they can tell the difference, but when we conducted a blind test, they were basically just guessing.

I am not saying it's impossible, but there aren't many people that can hear the difference, I know I can't. Even with my Grado cans.

For those who don't know the Louis CK reference, here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

It's awesome that cell phones work in the Bart tunnels at all

Upvote this man (and give me some downvotes if it balances things out for you). Too few see the world this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

I clicked Comments to say the exact same thing. They have access to thousands of films and whole seasons of TV shows and people are complaining because it's going to cost a little more. Unbelievable.

http://youtu.be/8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ nirvdrum

To be fair, it's not the first time Netflix has raised prices either. I'm paying much more now than I originally was and I was okay with incremental bumps. But this time they went about it poorly. And people are probably now realizing their prices are going to be raised on a near annual basis while their viewing habits likely haven't changed all that much.

I'd gladly go back to the older system whereby I was give X hours of streaming for my $X DVD plan. But the odds of me paying for a streaming plan on its own are quite minimal given the value of that service.

I think it's sign of our technologically advanced times that the commentary here is so level-headed.

I, for one, can't help having the mind boggled. Cars that drive themselves coming finally coming out of the domain of Knight Rider, and onto actual roads?! That's just frickin awesome! (or maybe I've just been watching this Louis CK clip too often - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk)

I think in this case, the term was justified, for the reason Louis CK illustrates in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Here we've got someone who has a magical device not much bigger than a wristwatch that holds 16 days worth of music, and he's complaining that it's not enough. For comparison, I was in college when Sony released the first Walkman, and we thought it was the coolest thing since sliced bread-- a device the size of a paperback book that allowed you to listen to 90 minutes worth of music while walking around.

So, yeah: 30GB capacity on an iPod is a first-world problem, in my book.

Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy[1]

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[1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ RyanMcGreal

It's the hedonic treadmill:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Refuse? Refuse? You can fly to the US - some 4000 miles away in 7.5 hrs for the East Coast and 11 hours for the West coast. You then may have a little bit of a wait at immigration (or not as the case may be). I've gone through in 5 minutes and one time it was 45 minutes. Seeing as you state you're in the UK, you also eligible for the VWP which means you can travel to the US whenever you like.

Just consider what it was like to travel before the invention of the airplane, or the steam ship. Please appreciate that you live in a time when travelling the world is very very easy. And please watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ ilitirit

I'm not in the UK, you just assumed that. I just said the UK is heading the same way. You have to undergo racial profiling, in your own country when applying for a visa for both the US and UK, and then you're subjected to "random" searches and interviews when you land there. This has happened on several occasions to a friend of mine. In fact, soon after 9/11 everyone in his family's US visas were mysteriously cancelled, presumably because his surname is "Hoosein". His sister had to leave the US where she had been working for years and reapply for another visa. She has to do this every year now. Last month, my friend's employer (Sky News) had to supply special documents to the UK government to prove that he was actually who he said he was, and even then they wouldn't give him a visa. We had to get in touch with the local foreign minister to get him a visa. The last time he was in the UK, he was detained for several hours (and nearly arrested without warrant under the Terrorist Act) because he dozed off in front of the Israeli check-in counter. These aren't isolated incidents.

So yes, I refuse.

Everything is amazing right now and nobody's happy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Hate to repost it but:

Everythings Amazing & Nobodys Happy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

may be we need this :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ trucious

Somehow I knew it would be this before clicking

⬐ None

None

When people complain to me about so and so technology related I tell them to relax, breath and consider the millions of things that need to go right in order for you to watch the latest Lady Gaga video on youtube.

I am constantly reminded of this by Louis CK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Berkely DB is NoSQL under some, let's say literal, definitions of NoSQL.

neo4j currently is also such a db, a non sql db, a NoSQL.

Normally, though, people expect something more from this NoSQL "movement".

People want "scaling", and elasticity.

We live in the world where today you have 2 users, tomorrow you have 2 million of users, the day after you have only 1000. We also live in a world were people are expecting everything to be working always, and are pretty pissed of if things doesn't respond in seconds (watch Luis C.K http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk)

It's not a surprise that all this hype about NoSQL came out when a number of db implementation were developed which handled replication, sharding, dynamic resizing (add remove nodes) etc

Now put a little bit aside the issue with the word "SQL" per se. Let's focus on the "partition tolerance" feature.

I was always frustrated with the fact that no matter how great my product could be, how perfect the implementations would be, how great my db would be; if my machine/rack/datacenter or section of datacenter wen't down, switches break, network connectivity goes down etc. the users of my application are not able to use it, for them it's down.

This kind of NoSQL, the one that handles partition tolerance, gives you the hope that eventually you will be able to make great software, resisting to this kind of events.

I'm not sure whether by these tools (cassandra, riak etc) I would be able to write an application that actually works better, even in the other cases. Stonebraker is right when he says that there are other more probable causes of errors, and that probably the compromises imposed by the partition tolerance will make your software development so complex you will probably make a lot of other errors and make the production unusable.

But at least there's hope that by using this tools you can make things that survive severe conditions. At least this is why I think people get's so excited about all this.

⬐ RiderOfGiraffes

Interesting to see this surface again.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=918637

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=474588

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1674480

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=495561

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=494066

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1003875

When the tiny pony is a negative thing, many call it Creeping Normalcy [1]. Sounds like the same phenonmenon to me: adjustments that come slowly enough do not get appreciated. Louis CK has a funny bit about it [2].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normalcy

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Queue the Louis CK Everything's Amazing & Nobody's Happy clip :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Me, I think they're just buses in the sky... except for all that economic and personal friction we pay to ride them.

Related:

"Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy" -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ mattmaroon

Classic bit. Also see http://comedians.jokes.com/patton-oswalt/videos/dvd---exclus...

This reminds me of Louis CK's "Everything's Amazing and Noboby's Happy" sketch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

"If we're into social commentary, I'd point out that as we become more and more pampered, we become more and more infantile. I expect to push the button on the iPhone and have the pizza show up 15 minutes later. I expect to be in contact with all of my friends instantly via text message. I expect to have college paid for and a warm house with the folks if things don't work out."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

Stuff like this always reminds me of this Louis CK clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

"Will you give it a second! It's going to SPACE!"

⬐ jgrahamc

That's funny be it reinforces the misconception (that many people have) that cell phones work by talking to satellites.

⬐ codeflo

What do these people think that antenna towers do?

⬐ jgrahamc

They don't realize they exist. I have has conversations with people who talk about how amazing cell phone satellite technology is.

I hate to agree with you but...

Wait, no, I don't hate to agree with you. You're absolutely right. "Died from too much hard coding"? Yeah right.

Coding is hard intellectual work. And, as you point out, if you're not happy with the trade-offs at work, you can always start your own business. It's really an awesome situation to be in, compared to what we could have been doing a hundred years ago.

Everything's amazing but nobody's happy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

PS: I doubt the coding is what killed "John".

⬐ kscaldef

I have a friend, he writes software for NASA spacecraft. His job is not inherently physically demanding, but many of those who know him worry that he will "code himself to death" eventually. When crunch time comes, he buries himself in his work. Doesn't sleep, forgets to eat, etc., for weeks on end. He's ended up in the hospital multiple times. So, that's what I think of when I read the story of "John".

This has nothing to do with "not [being] happy with the tradeoffs". These guys are perfectly happy acting like this; being the hero. But it's absolutely not something I'm going to encourage my friend to do to himself.

⬐ ams6110

If he writes software for manned spacecraft I think that would be terribly stressful: knowing that lives depend on whether or not there are any bugs in your code... I think if I wrote software like that I would be very likely to obsess over it.

And please nobody suggest TDD. TDD has its place but it's not a holy grail and it only tests the tests you think to write. Even if your code coverage is 100% you have certainly not tested every possible input and path if the software is at all complex.

⬐ kscaldef

As far as I know he's only been involved with unmanned projects.

⬐ jacquesm

Any busdriver or airliner pilot is responsible for more people on a daily basis.

⬐ sesqu

Good point. They aren't responsible for billions of dollars going poof, though (especially the bus driver).

A lot of people put the value of a life at around the expected work society gets from it - and then try to argue that that's not what they really think, obviously, because doing so would be immoral.

⬐ jacquesm

A single A380 (ok, that's a big one, but why not) is worth about $300 million. Not quite billions, but it's still more dough than most if not all of us will see in a lifetime.

⬐ robryan

Other problem is though, A380's cost a lot but probably get built at a decent rate. If someone had say caused a software bug in say new horizons, that could mean no pluto mission for a decade if not longer. So no loss of life but certainly a big loss.

⬐ assemble

You do know that Engineers and Software Developers help build buses and airplanes too, right? Those guys are responsible for every single flight on that aircraft. Not only for all the people that fly on them, but also the airline investment.

If you think software developers (or bus drivers, or airline pilots) can get paranoid, you should see what happens before test flights on airplanes.

⬐ megablast

I used to be able to do that when I was young, it was great. Now, it is much harder to block everything else out, I would be so much more productive if I could do that.

Of course, you need a break every now and again, and not eating/exercising is going to catch up with you, but I am guessing this guy is quite young.

⬐ kscaldef

He's in his thirties. But I don't think "productivity" to the point of putting yourself in the hospital is good for you at any age.

⬐ sonpo

Isn't this caused by his personality and drive and not the fact that he writes software for a big, "important" name? If he wasn't writing software, it seems like he would probably sell, paint, drive (or any other "career") himself to death, right? I wouldn't encourage it either, but it's probably just who he is.

It seems like these type of careers just draw that type of driven person. This is just a guess, as I draw from my personal experience.

⬐ kscaldef

Sure, but what I think the article is trying to say is that programming is one of these careers that encourages people to spend _way_ too much time doing it, to the detriment of the rest of their lives; and, furthermore, that we do ourselves and our colleagues no favor by engaging in hero worship towards the most egregious examples of this.

Simply because we can't change other professions, doesn't mean we can't improve our own. And just because there are some obsessive individuals who "work themselves to death" doesn't mean the rest of us need to try to match them (or encourage them).

⬐ derefr

And in fact, the fact that you can spend as much time as you like programming, without really needing a break due to any physical stresses inherent in the work, allows these people to abuse themselves both harder and longer than they could in any other field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

⬐ donw

I guess I'm just not happy because everything isn't as amazing as it could be.

This is probably why I like programming and tinkering so much, because it gives me a chance to make the world around me a little bit more amazing than it was.

Very relevant Louis CK standup bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk&feature=playe...

⬐ BrandonM

Here's a better link to that same clip: http://barefootmeg.multiply.com/video/item/56

I think it's amazing that the Internet works.

Topical video (Everything's amazing and nobody's happy):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk