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This is from 2011. Is this really the most recent comment you can find?

A video that's going viral claims that both Hamas and Fatah and Israel have elections coming up, and all 3 are far-right governments (and in Hamas' case, a totalitarian far-right party) that will benefit from a conflict. (In Israel's case the odds of an election are pretty high, it's not technically guaranteed. However Netanyahu has failed 5 times in 2 years to prevent elections, odds are he'll break his own record).

So we have 3 parties, all extreme-far-right facing election problems in the near future. A conflict now would greatly benefit all of them (for the next 4-5 months or so).

Think there's something to that? At least when it comes to timing it seems pretty relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48VEN5y6fMQ

⬐ DSingularity

The link was just so you don’t think I’m engaging in hyperbole when I say that Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing.

I agree with you overall. One thing that is worth mentioning though is how emboldened Netanyahu is. He is beloved by the far right in Israel for disregarding Oslo and expanding settlements. He was given the Golan heights and Jerusalem by the US. Why would he not escalate and plow on? He’s winning elections and becoming more popular with his base — a base that grows faster than liberal Israelis.

I think the region is doomed.

⬐ bawolff

I had no idea this whole thing started basically over covid restrictions. The geopolitical details in this video were quite interesting and something i rarely see talked about.

Guess this whole area is a powder keg and all it needed was a small shove.

⬐ potiuper

Surprising there has not been a push for a larger Starshot like laser to be built on the high ground near by the Gaza border. https://www.voanews.com/episode/israels-space-age-laser-weap...

⬐ Thristle

Is that laser based air defense? It was tested in israel but was canceled because of high cost and inability to scale

⬐ dogma1138

That was in the 90’s tho https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_High_Energy_Laser

Technology has evolved and most importantly the threat factor has evolved. Hamas and Hezbollah can now cripple the Israeli economy by forcing the population to shelter in place and being able to hit essentially every corner of Israel.

When THEL was tested the threat was much more localized to the border towns of northern Israel and at the time the settlements in Gaza which in the overall scheme of things it was more of a nuisance than a strategic threat.

If Hamas’s capability to strike Israel remained static and was limited to circa 2004-2005 when the first rocket strikes began to appear even Iron Dome might not have been developed and deployed at the scale it has today.

⬐ ta_ca

go to your profile, enable shadowdead and check last 2 days for the keywords israel|palestine

not surprisingly this one made it to front page. i am unable to classify what this one is, is it propaganda or just a sanitized trash.

the subject line gives away alot of to things you are going to see on the video.

an example: israel did this, palestinian civilians did that, then israel did this, as a result hamas shot rockets at them, and understandably israel bombed them which resulted tens of death.

understandably and tens of death, let that sink in. tens of death was the children figures alone.

⬐ dna_polymerase

> israel did this, palestinian civilians did that

Hamas. The terror organization linked to Iran. Hamas. Not civilians, terrorists are responsible here. No actor in this is innocent.

Hamas had this strategy for years, they can't defeat Israel, but dead children in Gaza are perfect to ruin Israel's reputation in the world. And that is the strategy Iran followed for years now, and it is a well documented strategy for ISIL/Daesh and Al quaida.

⬐ open0

What a dumb take.

⬐ ta_ca

you know what would not ruin their reputation? not killing civilians and children. which is possible if you stop demonizing then killing them.

⬐ dna_polymerase

You know what would stop Israel's reaction? Not shooting fucking rockets at their territory.

⬐ ta_ca

i am not expecting anything worth of value from this exchange but lets just try. what would you do if you were a Palestinian?

⬐ bawolff

I'm curious what you would do in Israel's place? I'm pretty sure that almost no country would take kindly to the de-facto government of a self-governed territory shooting rockets at civilian targets.

FWIW: my take is there's decades of blood on both side's hands, with no obvious way out of the cycle of violence. Which is just very sad all around.

If i lived in gaza, i would probably be sympathetic to them. If i lived in Israel i'd probably be sympathetic to Israel. Thankfully i live no where near either of them, so i can live my privileged life in peace without having to worry about the entrentched problems of that region.

⬐ ta_ca

that one is really easy.

first and foremost, i would stop poisoning the minds of my own precious youth. that is going to hit home some day, you can not avoid it. second, i would stop the new sattlements and system of apartheid

⬐ joelbluminator

I totally agree about the settlements but truth is thats not nearly enough for Hammas. They made it clear Israel is Palestine and jews have no business living there since they are colonists etc etc. Jews should basically f** off back to Europe. So again, as an Israeli what would you do? Europe is not so appealing to jews lately.

⬐ runarberg

The international community is adamant about a two state solution. So one option for the Israeli government is to grant Palestine independence. Hamas has not always been a majority government in Palestine and chances are that an independent Palestine will not support Hamas in it’s skirmishes against a separate Israel state.

Another option is a one state solution. Israel could grant every Palestinian a citizenship and with it a right to vote in national elections. There is zero chance that Hamas will have significant power in a unified parliament, and if they continue acts of terrorism in a unified non-apartheid state they can be tackled with a standard police force.

Basically what Israel shouldn’t do, is continue this current affair of keeping Palestine an occupied territory with accompanying apartheid system.

⬐ joelbluminator

Both options are not very likely to succeed and I am being generous here.

⬐ runarberg

I don’t know which criterion you set for success here. But I consider an end to the war, an end to the apartheid, an end to countless and needless deaths, an end to the blockade, and an end to the suffering of the 2 million people living at Gaza to be a success.

The current situation is in and of it self a complete and utter failure. It is hard to see how the situation could be any worse.

⬐ bawolff

Your option 2 is that Israel should annex Palestine? I can't imagine palestine would like that very much and i think that's also a war crime.

The two state solution seems like the most likely way forward, but if it was easy it would have happened already. After all, it failed in the 40s, and since then a lot of hate has built up on both sides.

⬐ runarberg

No, Annexation is apart from the single state solution. The gist of the single state solution is that there will be one state (lets call it Israel-Palestine for this purpose) with a new constitution. One benefit of the one state solution is the fact that resettlements of west-bank Israelis can be avoided. Of course that might mean that the current settlements which are illegal under international law will not be answered for. Although ideally, along with the formation of the new Israel-Palestine an international war tribunal would find the people responsible for planning these settlements guilty of war crimes and make them pay with a hefty prison sentence.

This is different from annexation which would basically mean a surrender for the Palestinians. Israel would continue as is with the current constitution. Palestinians would become Israeli citizens but on the terms of the Israelis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-state_solution

⬐ joelbluminator

I think even countries like the U.S are having a problem maintaining their democracy, how does an Israel Palestine work? Half of Palestinian or more support Hamas, in Israel the numbers of orthodox and ultra right jews is growing. Constitutions mean something in Denmark, not in the Middle East.

⬐ runarberg

I don’t think you mean to sound racist, but a statement like “constitutions mean nothing in the Middle East” sure does make you look racist. It sounds like you are stating that your country needs to be of European origin to have a constitutional democracy. You know very well that that is not true.

⬐ joelbluminator

There is literally not a single democracy in the middle east, not one. If you wanna call me racist (is middle east a race?) for saying something glaringly obvious go ahead. Btw some people simply look down on democracy, like China. They truly believe they have a better system. So its not for everyone, definitely not in the middle east.

⬐ runarberg

Depending on where you draw the line for middle east, and what counts as a democracy Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Yemen, Iraq, Kurdish autonomous regions, Afghanistan, and more have currently (or in recent history) had democracies. Those that have had democracy and lost it have done so usually because of foreign influence and wars (e.g. Afghanistan), although some have gained it because of wars (Kurdish autonomous regions). Now none of these might count as a true democracy in your books, and that is fine, but it is far from obvious.

I don’t think it is fair to generalize over such a vast region by making grand statements like “they truly believe...”. In fact most Kurdish autonomous regions were pretty quick to adopt democracy as their system of choise after they liberated them self from the Islamic State terrorist group during the Syrian civil war. And popular pro-democracy uprisings in Yemen would suggest counter to your statement.

⬐ bawolff

Sure, if both sides agree to a one state solution, then its not annexing. But Israelis doesn't seem to like the idea and Palestinians don't seem to like the idea, so that seems unlikely.

⬐ runarberg

Are you sure about that? Has there been recent polling that shows low support? The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians. I would imagine that support would skyrocket among both nations if two state solution were to be taken off the table (which is increasingly likely).

⬐ tguvot

on israeli side one state solution is acceptable only by ultra-left (kumbaya and peace forever) or by ultra-right (lets annex and have israel from jordan river to the sea).

two state solution won't be taken off the table, it's just a scare tactic. but even if it were, chance that support for it will skyrocket in Israel is non-existent.

⬐ dragonwriter

> The linked wikipedia article shows some support among Israelis and a high support among Palestinians.

The thing is “one-state solution” means three different incompatible things: displacement of Israeli Jews, displacement or political suppression of Palestinian Arabs, and a multiethnic, multireligious democracy. You can’t really add up support for all three and call it support for one thing.

⬐ Thristle

How bout you don't assume it's "poison" if Israelis don't share your personal views on this.

Its easier to call this an "ethnic cleansing" or "attacking civilian" then to actually admit that Gaza strip is a separate entity from Israel (unlike the west Bank). Israel doesn't want that land (or else they would leave it years ago or do a better job claiming it) They don't want to "clear the land of Palestinians" (or else they would just bomb them continuously instead of only when an escalation like this starts)

The fact is that in times of relative peace, Gaza receives some aid from Israel (power, water, medicine). The fact that this aid is conditional is only logical.

Yes, settlements are bad. But this is not the main reason why this is happening. The more co-existing west Bank have much better relations with Israel then the separated Gaza strip(although in the past, Gaza had much better relations as well-trade and workers could move almost freely)

⬐ mseidl

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c...

Israel is responsible for Hamas coming to power to fight the PLO. But it turns out they were way worse then the PLO ever was.

⬐ bawolff

Umm its a war (or at least an active armed conflict). Did you think that innocents don't die in war? Or that violence doesn't escalate by 1 side doing X and the other side doing Y in respone, and so forth?

If that didn't apply to this conflict it would probably be the first armed conflict in human history where that was the case.

⬐ ta_ca

this entire conflict is like a big house raid, there is no war.

⬐ bawolff

Dictionary definition of war: "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

Its clearly a conflict. Its clearly armed; both sides are shooting weapons at each other. Israel is a state. Hamas is a bit less clear cut but its the defacto government of gaza, which isn't technically a state (edit: debatable, maybe it is technically, idk), but is at least a self-governing territory.

Sounds pretty war-ish to me.

⬐ ykevinator3

Israel and Palestine are both monoracial dinosaurs. They should just let their citizens start dating and the problem would go away.