HN Theater @HNTheaterMonth

Thanks for sharing this - I found myself watching all 29 minutes of the LTT screwdriver design video [1], previously discussed [2], so it was great to see that their new tool did well in these tests. Fun/bracing delivery, too.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32673340

⬐ karmakaze

I also watched the whole LTT screwdriver design video and the only choice I disagreed with was using the shorter bits that meant that there's not much length of the narrower bit part exposed to reach those smaller places before the socket part gets in the way. The MegaPro that it was based on has at least moderate bit length.

⬐ abestic9

Project Farm, a YouTube creator that faces various brands of tools off against each other, has purchased an early (but apparently production) release of one of these. In a recent comment on one of his videos he’s stated he aims to have a video of ratcheting screwdrivers including this one out in a few days.

I’m optimistic given the attention to detail portrayed in this video, and the fact that Linus displays a passion for quality workmanship in his reviews of other products.

⬐ jansan

There are "continous" ratchet screwdrivers out there. I just purchased one out of curiosity, just to see how they work. Reviews are very positive, and the same tool seems to be sold unter multiple brand names like "Inbus Flow", "Stier ratchet driver". Cannot find an English webpage, though:

https://www.contorion.de/p/stier-schraubendreher-mit-bit-mag...

⬐ jansan

I received the Inbus Flow today. The continous/smooth/stepless (or however you want to call it) ratchet meachnism is very interesting. You can hear almost nothing and resitance in the open direction is very low. I am not sure if I prefer this or the conventional meachnism which gives feedback through "clicks". The handle is the same width as Linus' tool, which is a bit too large for my taste. Unlike Linus' screwdriver it can hold 12 full sized bits, but the shaft looks a bit cheaper. Looks like a comparable tool for half the price.

⬐ isatty

Project Farm makes amazing videos.

⬐ dimator

unrelated: the depth of the YouTube channel library is simply staggering. it amazes me to uncover channels that i absolutely would have subscribed to on day-0 if i had known them.

at the same time, youtube is really bad at exposing you to new channels that you would enjoy. they bombard you with similar videos ("here's 15 more toilet seat review videos for you!") but they're not able to extrapolate channel tastes for some reason. it's left largely up to the user to dig around for collaterally-themed channels.

⬐ NCC1701DEngage

>at the same time, youtube is really bad at exposing you to new channels that you would enjoy. they bombard you with similar videos ("here's 15 more toilet seat review videos for you!") but they're not able to extrapolate channel tastes for some reason. it's left largely up to the user to dig around for collaterally-themed channels.

This is exactly why I am working on a team to create alternative YouTube recommendations. Our algorithm is designed to surface smaller more obscure but relevant channels.

Search a channel to get a list of channels making similar content. Our recommendations for Project Farm include other tool review channels like A Concord Carpenter / Toolboxbuzz and Thrifty Tool Shed. Click through to A Concord Carpenter's list of similar channels also reveals Tools & Stuff. Thrifty Tool Shed is a great example of a very small yet relevant channel that the algorithm surfaces (~15k subscribers).

Our list of channels similar to Project Farm:

https://channelgalaxy.com/id%3DUC2rzsm1Qi6N1X-wuOg_p0Ng/

Of course there are dozens more channels on PF's list that are about more general carpentry, metalsmithing, and home-engineering projects. And you can use the search bar at the top of the page to search any other channels you watch to get their similar channels lists.

⬐ dimator

this is great! how are channel similarities discovered?

feedback:

* the galaxy map is next to useless. this is the data model, which is neat, but does nothing for usability * searching can be improved. i search for AvE but got all results with ".ave." so that could be improved * allow me to search by youtube channel URL directly, or video URL (where the service dereferences for the channel)

⬐ 51Cards

I do love his videos though I find them a little rapid fire and after awhile I loose track of what is what. His testing methodlogy is pretty thorough and practical but wish he could change the presentation format a little. That said it is such a firehose of details that I don't have any suggestions on how he would do that. I just find it overwhelming to keep track of each product through the test cycles. Maybe it just needs a better summary at the end.

⬐ isatty

I guess I’m just one of those people that appreciate the no nonsense rapid fire format. I don’t have to watch his videos at 1.5x :^)

⬐ ars

I also love his videos, but I find them a bit long so I play them at 2X speed.

He usually puts a graph at the end of each segment to help you remember how each brand tested.

⬐ causi

Yes, if he showed summary spreadsheets at the end I wouldn't have to watch the video with a pen and notepad and my finger hovering over the pause button. I wish they would update his wiki again.

⬐ sharedfrog

He's been doing that for a while now?

⬐ geerlingguy

Even without many third party reviews, they've sold through 60,000 drivers (and counting) in less than two days. Seems like plenty of people are already taking them for their word, or just want to show support for the channel.

⬐ jccalhoun

They have been talking about the screwdriver for a long time. I'm tempted to buy one because I have been following the development but I'll wait for Project Farm to render a verdict on it before I buy it.

⬐ marginalia_nu

LTT has a lot of goodwill. The brand is managed incredibly well and feels consistently personal, honest and authentic.

Probably a lot of people that just want them to do well in what they do. If you get a decent screwdriver out of it, that's nice I guess.

⬐ simonebrunozzi

And this is not a bad thing.

⬐ graton

True. But they did hurt some of that goodwill with the "Trust Me Bro Warranty" in regards to the $250 backpack they sell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxVtAiYeL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsX3tUA-wJk

⬐ compsciphd

eh. the warranty that they have now issued is less than what the level they want. so people still want to trust them to "underpromise and over deliver" as they say. I'm not convinced it really hurt them.

⬐ Open-Sourcery

Never really got the whole controversy around that, and looks like Linus didn't really either. I would potentially chalk it up to cultural differences. At least where I live (and maybe in Canada?) we have quite strong consumer protection laws to the point that pretty much all warranties are less strong than the law is, so I don't really pay attention to them at all.

⬐ kalleboo

I came in at the tail-end of the controversy and didn't get it either, but then I watched the initial comment Linus made on the stream that started it and it was really weird. Basically his argument for not having a warranty was "if I die and my wife has to take over the business but doesn't want to, I don't want there to be any liabilities that she needs to be on the hook for".

You're a big business employing dozens of people and selling millions of dollars worth of goods now, you can't have the attitude "if I don't want to do this anymore I want an out where I can just say sayonara thanks for the fish"

⬐ CraigJPerry

There's a cheap plastic handle design fairly common on old screwdrivers and i've seen it as a wooden handle on chisels too. I didn't know it's name until recently - the "London Pattern Handle". These are peak handle design IMO.

It lets you hold it in a few different ways, with your fingertips for work where you need to accurately feel what the tip is doing. With the palm of your hand when you need to apply lots of torque. It doesn't roll when you set it down. You can smack the end of it when you need to shock a slightly rusty or reluctant screw.

It's ironic because i think these are the cheapest design and i suspect most companies invent their own design precisely because this design is fairly evocative of old cheap mass produced hard plastic handles.

They just feel so good in your hand though. It's the perfect handle design.

⬐ dkarl

It's hard to image improving on that handle design. It's even good with the hard, slick plastic handles of my old cheap Craftsman screwdrivers. I hate handles where I have to figure out and copy how the designer expected me to grip it. I have no idea how my hand grips my Craftsman screwdrivers, and I don't care. The handle has a bunch of ridges, our hands have a bunch of bumps and ridges, just grab at any angle or grip you want, and the bumps and ridges find a way to catch on each other. The one aspect that could be improved is that the older ones I have are from the 1970s and probably wouldn't work well for people with larger hands.

⬐ bluesquared

They also allow you to use a wrench/pliers to apply more torque/holding.

⬐ denton-scratch

That's what the hex section of the shaft, just south of the handle, is for.

⬐ wlesieutre

For the visual people, here's a london pattern handle: https://www.benchcrafted.com/londonpatternhandle

You can find the same shape in mass produced modern tools with plastic handles: https://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-pc-slotted-screwdriver-set...

⬐ zxcvgm

Not an apples-to-apples comparison, but I just wanted to see the price positioning for this screwdriver. It goes for $69.99 [0] and Megapro ratcheting screwdrivers (which they mentioned in their video) goes from ~$50 to $59.99, depending on what bits it comes with.

[0] https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver

[1] https://megaprotools.com/collections/ratcheting-drivers

⬐ lytfyre

That's understating the difference - Megapro sell for significantly less than that in practice - pricing here in Canada is in the 30 CAD$ range from tool stores, depending on bit selection. The LTT driver is 3-4x the price once shipping and currency conversion is factored in.

[0] https://www.kmstools.com/megapro-ratcheting-multi-bit-screwd...

⬐ bin_bash

For some reason Megapro charges significantly more when ordering directly and last I looked I wasn't able to find them on Amazon.

I was able to find the same screwdrivers for almost 50% less at the local Altex (Texas electronics store). Looks like this ratcheting one is 42.95: https://altex.com/collections/screwdrivers/products/megapro-...

⬐ bombcar

Many manufacturers don't like direct sales, and if they offer them they're basically offering "warranty stock" for sale.

They much prefer selling to distribution.

⬐ master_crab

Megapro is also made in “North America” (I assume Canada but would love to hear from someone in the know). So you’d be supporting the “local” American economy, if that matters to you.

⬐ cjrp

Or Mexico?

⬐ kube-system

Probably not Greenland.

⬐ master_crab

Would be great if it’s Mexico too. A healthy economy in any of the three N.A. nations is good for all of them. Neighbors have an outsize influence on each other.

⬐ kllrnohj

In the video they claim Megapro is 20 minutes away from LTT's offices - so that'd be Canada, yeah. Unless that's just a satellite office for Megapro instead of the headquarters.

⬐ Fnoord

I got an iFixit Mako set for less than 60 or 70 USD on a Black Friday sale a couple of years ago. Should I get this screwdriver instead, or is the Mako set suffice? AFAICT the Mako set is better bang for the buck, but I don't know the pros and cons of this LTT screwdriver.

⬐ oliwarner

You can't really get it instead, you already have the other. Does it do what you want at a quality point you require? Is that worth selling at a heavy loss (eBay suggests £30 for a quick sale)? Are they even comparable products? The Mako looks like an ⅛" driver for small and odd security bits.

A smooth low-backlash ratchet is the USP. Conscious decisions about materials. I can't speak to your requirements.

⬐ Fnoord

Other people can buy the iFixit Mako [1] set instead of this screwdriver though. Perhaps not for the same price I did (I got the Pro Tech Toolkit on sale instead which contained the Mako set). It also includes Torx which the LTT one lacks.

I ended up buying the LTT one to reduce clutter with a bunch of my current 'normal' screwdrivers, but the end price was about 110 EUR with tax and S&H. Which is rather expensive if you ask me.

[1] https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Pro-Tech-Toolkit/IF145-30...

⬐ brailsafe

kind of a shame that even though they're based in Canada, if I were to buy one from either company I'd have to pay USD to get it shipped 1 hour away in the same metro area. $10 USD for local shipping apparently

⬐ dghlsakjg

That actually sounds in line with what Canada Post would charge.

I had to ship a laptop from me on Vancouver Island to my employer in Vancouver and it cost ~$50.

Shipping in the states is cheap. Shipping in Canada, even very short distances, is not.

⬐ 20kleagues

Use netparcel. It has changed how I view shipping locally within the country and I do it more often now.

⬐ Curzel

They did explain their reasoning behind this during WAN a few weeks ago.

In short, they are trying to make shipping price more fair for the average customer (including those oversea, or in remote regions) by making shipping a bit more expensive where it is cheaper.

Charging people nearby a bit extra allows them to offset some of those costs.

They provided a few examples of backpacks shipping to remote regions in Canada (I forgot the name, sorry) custom upwards of hundreds of dollars, but they capped shipping price to 50/60$ for every customer.

Very happy to hear that (I live in Europe), but obviously you're probably not a fan of the idea as much as I am hahaha

⬐ ChuckNorris89

I also live in Europe and I'd love to buy their merch but the shipping and customs costs add up immensely so there's no way I'm buying anything from them.

⬐ Curzel

Yeah, but if backpacks ever become available without backorder I might make a single big order next year, who knows!

⬐ Curzel

It's not cheap but it does not seem to be too bad of a value...

YouTuber's merch is generally meant to be a way of supporting a show you like, so once you factor that in, I'm happy with the price

⬐ shapefrog

"The ratchet is based on Megapro's long-standing & reliable design, but has been significantly modified to suit our needs. We reversed the ratchet direction (right for clockwise, left for anti-clockwise), adjusted the spring for lighter back-force which allows you to ratchet-drive even very small screws, and optimized for smoothness and quiet function. It's rated for operation of up to 220 inch-pounds of force."

optimized for an extra $10.00

⬐ qbasic_forever

Why in the world do small screws need nearly 20 ft-lbs of force? That's a level where I'd be breaking out a much larger torque wrench. I'd be shocked if the kind of small machine screws in a PC can even withstand that force.

⬐ Pxtl

Because if somebody uses their $50 screwdriver to disassemble office furniture they don't want it to break.

⬐ bombcar

"Instantaneous breaking force" or whatever it is can get pretty high, especially if the screw has been there for awhile, or there's any oxidation, etc.

Starting with the right driver (with a perfect tip that fits snugly) will reduce the chance of camout and can help remove them, but even then it can be a tricky situation at times.

I personally find that having a really long screw driver helps - I can get more torque without slipping.

⬐ throwaway0a5e

High torques on small fasteners are common in electrical and hydraulic applications. But yeah, zero reason for huge amounts of torque in a computer case.

⬐ rowanG077

High torque on the mounting screws of some CPU coolers can significantly help thermal performance.

⬐ rocqua

They don't. The screwdriver isn't meant for that.

Point is "adjusted the spring for lighter back-force" would normally mean the max torque you can use is reduced (because the spring slips). They state the max torque you can use to indicate the effect of the trade-off.

The fact that you think that the max torque is still way more than is needed, is probably why they advertise this. The fact that max torque is way higher than needed means they did not trade off too much max torque to reduce the back-force.

⬐ throw0101c

> optimized for an extra $10.00

Megapro may have larger economies of scale and therefore lower costs, or Megapro may have already paid off / amortized the cost of development and so felt its margins were already without having that included in the price anymore.

⬐ brianwawok

That’s not how a business sets prices. It charges as much as consumers are willing to pay.

⬐ t-writescode

Tell that to Arizona Iced Tea. Not all companies are garbage.

Friendly reminder that LTT sells *all* of its desk pads and water bottles for the same price, no matter the size.

⬐ brianwawok

A company using basic ecomomic principles is garbage?

So LTT overcharging for it's smaller water bottles vs big is good? But if a company were to discount small water bottles, and raise the price of bigger, they are garbage?

wow.

⬐ V__

If more people are willing to buy the product for a lower price and due to better economies of scale / amortized cost of development the margins also improve then of course they may lower the price.

⬐ PaulKeeble

The vast majority of the 2 year delay seems to be fraud by their Chinese manufacturer. They were given exact specifications but they didn't build the parts to it to avoid competition with their own production.

They had a bunch of design iterations issues along the way but the bulk of it was fraud.

⬐ Maursault

> They had a bunch of design iterations issues along the way but the bulk of it was fraud.

I would not doubt that, but you're ignoring personality disorder (and/or drug abuse, impossible to say) and fiscal irresponsibility, which each obviously contributed significantly.

Consumers are not just buying a decent though expensive screwdriver, however, as the product may also be seen as a keepsake and a collectable for Linus Tech Tips fans. Though it is exceedingly unlikely, it is possible the screwdriver will hold its value or even appreciate in value.

⬐ dtx1

> I would not doubt that, but you're ignoring personality disorder (and/or drug abuse, impossible to say) and fiscal irresponsibility, which each obviously contributed significantly.

who are you refering to? Linus?

⬐ Maursault

> who are you refering [sic] to? Linus?

No, of course not, I was referring to Nebraska Senator George Norris, who retired in 1943. Who else?

⬐ ChuckNorris89

>you're ignoring personality disorder (and/or drug abuse, impossible to say)

Huh? Does Linus suffer from that?

⬐ Maursault

You have to really try hard to ignore the mania, obsessiveness, perfectionism, and I think sadism as well (along with self-debasing humor), and these predict other unseen symptoms, such as egoism or the need to be the center of attention, and a need for constant admiration, and a fear of or inability to accept criticism resulting in negative reaction and defensiveness. But as these can also be symptoms of amphetamine use, it is difficult to say which it is, but I would lean towards not.

⬐ hbn

Your comments read like something written by one with mania more than anything I've ever observed from Linus

⬐ Maursault

That is an excellent ad hominem attack. I have offended you personally by objectively criticizing the behavior of your hero, and thus, you feel threatened and compelled to respond negatively. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize for offending your delicate sensibilities.

⬐ mrguyorama

Dude puts on an excited demeanor so he can get 10% more views in his videos and these assholes out here claiming he has issues. Geeze. How dare you enjoy yourself on the internet.

⬐ Maursault

The thread subject was concerning why it took 3 years to release a product as droll as a screwdriver. It is amazing how insulted people get over medical conditions. If your throat was sore, your nose was running, and you were sneezing, and I said maybe you have a cold, I suppose you and others replying to my comments would be compelled to attack me in self-defense, revealing deeper medical issues.

⬐ Scalene2

No, but iirc he is pretty open out add or adhd (I forget which). It seems well managed.

⬐ Maursault

> It seems well managed.

I agree entirely. I think my point had been lost, which was merely speculation on what else beyond fraud would delay release of a screwdriver for 3 years.

⬐ t-writescode

Your "point" was a direct attack on a person with absolutely no evidence. You essentially argued that Linus spent all that time and money on "blackjack and hookers" and that's what took 3 years.

⬐ Maursault

It appears observation, speculation, and dissent is not tolerated here. Linus himself says his perfectionism contributed to the delay of the project. Perfectionism is a symptom, not a character flaw, and not who Linus is. It never stands alone and predicts other symptoms. Another commenter who was already aware confirmed my suspicions. If Linus happened to not be aware, then it is possible this thread may have enlightened him to seek corrective treatment. Compassion is more important than noses getting bent out of shape, and frankly, thin skin is a tell-tale symptom of psychological disorder. Sticks and stones.

Your comment is a straw man, as that is not at all what I've argued, which is simply, beyond fraud, personality probably contributed to the project's untimely delay.

⬐ dom96

> Chinese manufacturer

Isn't it Taiwanese?

⬐ blackoil

Whenever convenient, Taiwan is China.

⬐ philliphaydon

No.

⬐ PaulKeeble

I believe it is now I don't think they mention it in this video but have done so on the WAN show, the original manufacturer in 2020 however was Chinese, they had to change due to the fraud and lost $130000 in the process.

⬐ KptMarchewa

Video claims it's the other way around. Taiwanese manufacturer screwed them, they changed to Chinese.

⬐ philliphaydon

The Taiwanese company was bought out by another company who is focusing on their own products. The original company had megapro as a long time customer which is why LTT used them initially.

Originally company isn’t the issue. The new company is who screwed over LTT. But we don’t know who the new company is.

⬐ Dylan16807

Well unless it was a hostile takeover or something, I think the original company shares the blame for not taking care of their customers.

⬐ philliphaydon

Don't know unless we know who manufactures them, then we can find out. But according to Linus, a company which makes tools bought them out to manufacture their own tools. So it /sounds/ like a hostile takeover.

⬐ tabokie

No it isnt. It's literally mentioned in the video. (https://youtu.be/2K5Gqp1cEcM?t=1009)

> we changed to a different factory in China potentially losing our $130000 deposit in the process.

⬐ TakeBlaster16

Yep. And 15:25 is when he said the first factory was in Taiwan.

EDIT: Also a bonus mention at 27:35

⬐ CarVac

There's a reason that ratchets all have the control turn the opposite way: so that if it rubs against something as you operate it, it won't reverse accidentally.

Linus broke the convention just because he wanted to… it's just as bad as that awful "natural scrolling" that plagues laptops these days.

⬐ Scalene2

They don't all follow that convention. There was one mentioned in the video that doesn't.

⬐ JadoJodo

I think GP was saying that "all" ratchets (including the one mentioned in the video) have it go one-way to avoid accidentally toggling the direction if you rub it against something (e.g., if you put it in a tight space and bump it against the side as you turn it).

⬐ luma

Also, you turn the handle in the desired direction of rotation while holding the lock ring. LTT has decided that the ring is what’s important, not the handle you are turning.

I disagree but good on LTT for making something they want to use. I’ll stick with my Megapro.

⬐ jaimehrubiks

This makes a lot of sense.

⬐ caseyohara

Natural scrolling makes a lot of sense if you think of the trackpad as a proxy for a touchscreen, it certainly feels more natural to me. Not so much on a mouse wheel.

⬐ CarVac

My problem with natural scrolling is ergonomics: fingers are better suited to pulling than pushing.

⬐ 1970-01-01

And it has a terrible warranty.

     THE LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

     Bits, as they are considered a consumable item;
     Tools which have been subject to abuse, misuse, negligence, or improper storage;
     Tools which have been used improperly e.g. using the screwdriver as a pry bar or hammer;
     Tools which have been altered in any way;
     Normal wear and tear (including the breakdown of materials over time);
     Cosmetic damage (including scratches or changes in the finish of the plastic handle);
     Products purchased from unauthorized dealers

Buy Craftsman. Craftsman's Full Lifetime Warranty states anyone can take the screwdriver to the hardware store and take home a new one.

https://www.craftsman.com/support/warranty

https://imgur.com/gallery/VUjZm

⬐ bobsmooth

Or you can just buy a quality tool and not waste your time.

⬐ rozab

The point of lifetime warranties is it incentivizes the company to make something that will last forever.

https://youtu.be/syii9DKnb2M

⬐ ubercore

I feel like the practice is that they bank on not enough people using it, then either take it away entirely if too many people do, or stop individuals they feel are abusing it (in the US, anyway)

⬐ bobsmooth

You must not be familiar with Crasftman tools.

⬐ toss1

Except it doesn't.

An engineer I worked with used primarily Matco & also Snap-On & a few otehrs. He specifically said about Craftsman: "Sure, they have a lifetime warranty that you can go swap one at any store — that doesn't help you when you are out in the field and the thing breaks and you need it NOW. More than worth it to buy one that doesn't break."

I picked up that approach and can strongly recommend it. I've also bought a lot of Matco tools on eBay with very good results. They just work without problems and last effectively forever. (The one thing that hasn't lasted effectively forever was Snap-On air-powered dual orbit sanders, they only lasted a 8 years or so...)

⬐ animex

I've never had to replace a craftsman tool during normal home use... 20+ years.

⬐ bobsmooth

In a single summer I went through half a dozen 10mm sockets and one 10mm wrench. Luckily I was working inside a Canadian Tire so I could swap out during a break.

⬐ mrguyorama

Are your tools from before or after Sears cashed in on the brand value?

⬐ Melatonic

Craftsmen is not all that great anymore. Much better USA brands that are made here.

⬐ SadWebDeveloper

Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered tool that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the stores.

Personally i like my tools rugged, kinda like Klein does it because "on the job" i tend to thrown them away either on purpose or by accident, this tool looks fragile, if little margins stuck the ratchet mechanism i can not wait what is going to happen when it suddenly falls from the 2nd floor while installing an Access Point or Security Camera.

⬐ kllrnohj

> Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered tool that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the stores.

Megapro (LTT's partner on this) has been selling this type of ratcheting driver w/ bit storage in the handle for 25 years and is pretty well reviewed. How did you manage to make the leap to Juicero & only "saved by LTT logo" nonsense from such a well established, long-running product?

⬐ TheCapn

So what advantages does the $69.99 LTT driver have over the $48.99, $54.99, or $59.99 ratcheting drivers sold by Magapro themeslves? I think that's more to what OP is getting at.

Going to a store knowing the LTT driver is a rebranded Magapro, why would any consumer want to pay the markup besides the brand name?

For me, the LTT driver's only notable differences are not valuable additions to justify the cost. I think that's where the Juicero comparison enters: they've added unnecessary engineering to a tool that doesn't require it, then marked up the price for something most people will never require.

⬐ kcb

These questions and more would be answered if you watched the video.

⬐ rowanG077

I mean the video is literally RIGHT THERE explaining in great detail why it's better then the megapro and why they didn't just slap an LTT logo on an existing screw driver.

⬐ piyh

If you're comparing this against a magapro at $10 more, but with the specific bits I need, all you're doing is selling me a screwdriver.

⬐ kllrnohj

> Going to a store knowing the LTT driver is a rebranded Magapro, why would any consumer want to pay the markup besides the brand name?

It's not a rebranded Megapro, as the video goes into great details to elaborate on. But even if you just look at them, it's obviously not a white label rebrand. Which you (and OP) is obviously aware of by then also slamming it for having "unnecessary engineering". It can't both be a label rebrand and have unnecessary engineering - those are mutually exclusive, completely opposite ends of the spectrum complaints.

Whether or not the differences are worth $10 is a different question, and altogether extremely different in both scope & tone to the juicero comparison.

> they've added unnecessary engineering to a tool that doesn't require it

What unnecessary engineering?

⬐ TheCapn

>What unnecessary engineering?

Foremost is the knurling on the shaft. It's additional machining for an essentially useless addition. All the hullabaloo about torque strength for the relevant use cases also seems overdone.

My experience is PC repair, both professionally and hobbiest. I've got my share of experience in vehicle repair and electrical panel assembly as well so I'm not totally inexperienced with relevant tools.

⬐ kllrnohj

> Foremost is the knurling on the shaft. It's additional machining for an essentially useless addition.

Calling that "engineering" seems like a stretch. Unnecessary cost maybe, but it's not a unique feature to the LTT driver by any means. Heck, the $13 Amazon Basics driver has a knurled shaft ( https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-12-in-1-Magnetic-Ratchet... ). So calling it useless also seems like a leap. It lets you turn the shaft directly, using it more like an (also knurled) ifixit driver.

> All the hullabaloo about torque strength for the relevant use cases also seems overdone.

I think you misunderstood that. They didn't brag about having high torque, they were instead saying that the super low back drag they obsessed over (the best that project farm tested, fwiw) didn't kill the ability to handle torque.

⬐ marcosdumay

Looks to me like a run-of-the-mill multipurpose screwdriver, with a perfectly ordinary development effort behind.

I don't think this would break if you drop it from a person's height, but it may break if you drop from the 2nd floor. Just like any similar one.

I guess the lesson here is that you don't want a multipurpose screwdriver if you will work on the top of a ladder. It will just bring you extra problems. (Although I do use mine a lot that way, usually because it's already around. It does bring extra problems.)

⬐ causi

The half-height bits also make it very hard to curate the selection for your specific use cases without buying directly from LTT.

⬐ sacredSaint

They do support full size bits. Though you will be only able to store 6 full size bits instead of 12 small bits. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0522/2980/0129/files/Addit...

⬐ ghosty141

Did you all not watch the video before complaining? He specifically mentioned this, its designed so yoi can also have normal bits in the bitset

⬐ O_H_E

Just for people who didn't watch the video. They could only fit 12 bits in that they determined to be "optimal size" handle by making them half-size. But they disliked the idea of locking people into their bits, and changed the design so that a little rotation can adapt the storage area to 6 standard-sized bits.

Here is a link to the relevant section https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=819s

⬐ rspeele

> juicero for screwdrivers

You have to buy a proprietary packet of orange juice and vodka?

⬐ tmh88j

> Seems like the juicero for screwdrivers... over-engineered tool that without the "LTT" branding could probably sink in the stores.

I haven't used one so I don't know how durable they are, but I got the opposite impression. The juicero served no purpose. If you don't need a multi-purpose screwdriver that's one thing, but it does have plenty of use-cases and there are a lot of competitors which they showed so they are in demand to some extent. I'd say their attempt is more akin to Snap-on with how much energy they seemed to focus on ergonomics and UX, especially the ratcheting mechanism.

⬐ throwaway0a5e

>I'd say their attempt is more akin to Snap-on with how much energy they seemed to focus on ergonomics and UX, especially the ratcheting mechanism.

Snap On builds "fine" tools and sells them for premium prices because their brand has a lot of mind share among the customers. Kitchenaid does the same thing.

These people don't a long established brand to power their money printer so they instead turn to marketing. If you want to market an expensive screwdriver to the kind of people who buy them hyping up the manufacturing process is a great way to go about it.

⬐ tmh88j

They worked with Megapro to develop it, a reputable brand. I haven't used it, but denying potential quality solely because they don't have brand recognition in that space is an unconvincing argument.

⬐ Theodores

My first job as a cycle mechanic was great because we had Snap On for everything and the Snap On van would pop by regularly to keep us with everything needed.

We actually sold fancy bike tools including Park, which is the allegedly professional brand in cycling.

I enjoyed the flex of being able to work extremely fast with those extremely shiny tools. Hence, for irrational reasons I see Snap On as a premium brand to not be questioned, even if all evidence is contrary.

Intel is like that for me, I have heard AMD are better but I cling onto this notion that Intel are always better for floating point and, even though I have no evidence of that, my mind is made up. I will take that Intel CPU and I don't care if it is slower, takes twice the electricity and costs more.

With Snap On I do not know how well their business was able to pivot to the web where you can get whatever tool you want from the jungle store, next day. The Snap On van brought excellence to our door with every specialist tool you could wish for. Price didn't matter because you would need to drive hours to find a stockist of lesser brands.

My personal favourite screwdriver to 'flex' is my Silicon Graphics screwdriver. We have bonded and I am not going to upgrade to some YouTuber's screwdriver.

⬐ xenadu02

Snap On is selling more than just a brand:

1. They will outfit your new shop on a payment plan (or at least they did at one time), allowing a new mechanic to get started with a full set of tools for not much money.

2. Their reps come to you with a big truck loaded with common replacement tools and calibration machines. How many people ever read the fine print that says their torque wrench requires calibration every six months, let alone bother to do so?

Kitchenaid stand mixers are selling the fact that they're a classic heavily built design not cheap thin plastic and they're still built in the USA.

Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest $5 widget available and I'm glad the market is able to serve different types of customers. Obviously that can be taken to an extreme (the entire audiophile market for example) but finding product-market fit and serving a specific set of customers shouldn't be demeaned as just "branding".

⬐ hotcoffeebear

Plus, it’s probably for computer builders and stuff (like ikea things or similar). I don’t think those meant for heavy duty or home building.

⬐ jgoewert

Should watch the video they did just before this one where they did a live popup shop and had people trying to torque the hell out of this and it stands up.

Or even during this exact video where he says that if you hit the max torque that this screwdriver can survive, you better have seen that your steel pc case now has a hole in it where the screw used to be.

⬐ Kye

It's on one of their other channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whyncg86D64

⬐ causality0

As someone who spends a good portion of his workday using screwdrivers on industrial equipment and computers, I still don't understand why you'd want a ratcheting one.

⬐ magicalhippo

I highly prefer a ratcheting screwdriver if I have to remove a stubborn philips or pozidriv screw, especially if the screw is not directly accessible or there's limited space for my hand.

This allows me to keep a good grip and the pressure on the screw all the time, ensuring the screwdriver head doesn't slip out of position.

I also find it faster to just twist the shaft of the screwdriver once the screw is loose, something which I find easier with a ratcheting screwdriver (many have a knurled section on the shaft for this).

And a good ratcheting screwdriver allows you to lock the mechanism, so you have the best of both worlds.

⬐ mrweasel

The locking mechanism is really where many cheap screwdrivers fail. If it's to easy to hit, or doesn't lock cleanly in place, it can be pretty annoying.

⬐ denton-scratch

My ratchet driver is Stanley. It's about 15 years old, and it has no faults, other than being too fat for some jobs; the shaft has a sort of rolodex for bits built-in, and it can get in the way. I don't think Stanley make this driver any more (Stanley are not the toolmaker they used to be).

⬐ robocat

Black & Decker bought Stanley in 2010 to become Stanley Black & Decker. They then started becoming an umbrella company, buying many other existing brands such as Craftsman and DeWalt.

It is hard to trust a “brand” any more. From 2017 there is a great summary of brand ownership here: https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gear/a28359/mega...

The consolation of design and manufacturing has lead to some quality problems for existing hand and power tool brands.

⬐ magicalhippo

Fair point, if the alternative is between a plain and a cheap ratcheting screwdriver, I'd probably go with the plain one. But I've bought a few "mid-range" ratcheting screwdrivers and I've found them very useful.

⬐ geerlingguy

This is one thing I'm keen on testing. I bought a PB Swiss driver to compare, and the ratchet on it is a huge improvement over every other ratcheting driver I've used.

I never really liked ratcheting drivers but I might make an exception for the PB Swiss (jury's out on the LTT driver). It feels like a real screwdriver when you lock the ratchet.

⬐ GarrickDrgn

It really is a matter of convenience. Linus's work is obviously mostly with computers and servers, where you often work in tighter spaces; not having to reposition your whole hand (and/or pull the screwdriver out of the screw and reposition it because of a lack of space) is a nice convenience. Plus, most computer screws are not really tightened very much, so you'll be done with a few flicks of your wrist. He also explicitly mentions he uses the ratchet by turning only the axle and keeping the handle steady in his hand for a lot of the screws.

⬐ smcl

I'm not sure I understand the reposition-your-hand thing. If you're turning the screwdriver you either continuously manipulate it with your fingers or keep rotating your wrist back and forth regardless of whether you have a normal or ratcheted one. Only difference being in the ratcheted one you don't have to release the grip on the screwdriver (and in non-ratcheted you just have to not grip tightly). And if the screws aren't tightened too much - like in a PC - then you'd need a really light ratchet action for it to be of any use.

I guess it's just a personal preference thing rather than a real need of some sort, which IMO is fair enough

⬐ BrandoElFollito

I use a screwdriver when I have to (so I am a level 0 expert) but at some point you have to release your grip on the screwdriver and therefore need a way to keep it engaged in the screw (except if you reposition it at every 1/4 of turn).

This can be annoying (it is always for me) and a mechanism where you can arm the next 1/4 turn without disengaging the screw is great

PS. when I say 1/4 of a turn, this is to to indicate the torsion of the wrist. Could be more, could be less

⬐ TimMeade

Sometimes you can't see the screw in computer racks. If you have to pull the screwdriver off even so slightly it might be difficult to get back on the screw head. Ratcheting negates this slight issue.

⬐ smcl

I've not encountered this, though maybe I've been lucky enough to only need to handle screws that I can easily keep a bit of pressure on while (idk the right term) "resetting" my fingers/wrist to keep [un]screwing.

⬐ brailsafe

Seems like it would be the same reason as any, keeping the driver in place.

⬐ viraptor

> or keep rotating your wrist back and forth regardless of whether you have a normal or ratcheted one

What goes away with the ratchet is the continuous clench/unclench action. While I don't normally have any other RSI-like issues, that movement just kills my wrist after 1 or 2 screws. I've got a ratchet screwdriver with an option to twist/bend it in the middle to get better leverage and the difference is amazing.

⬐ Daub

> He also explicitly mentions he uses the ratchet by turning only the axle and keeping the handle steady in his hand for a lot of the screws.

This is shown in action at this point in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K5Gqp1cEcM&t=606s

In many ways, this mimics the function of a jewelers screwdriver:

https://www.victornet.com/milpixpics/1315_GEN-SPC-100.jpg

⬐ mrweasel

I want, and have, both a ratcheting screwdriver and a "normal" one. For screws that a hard to reach, I don't want to lift the screwdriver between turns. There are certainly cases with tricky screws where a normal screwdriver is much more convenient. It really depends on what I'm doing.

⬐ rwmj

What's wrong with ratcheting screwdrivers? I don't use screwdrivers every day, but my cheap[1] ratcheting screwdriver seems to work fine.

[1] Literally free, I was given it at some conference.

⬐ bin_bash

I agree, but for small fasteners the palm-saver cap in the megapro screwdriver I have is great: https://megaprotools.com/pages/the-megapro-advantage

It doesn't ratchet. It's basically just a bearing so you can push down on the top and the rest of the screwdriver can move freely—hard to explain I suppose.

⬐ bombcar

Much of my use of ratcheting screwdrivers has been replaced by power tool screwdrivers.

If you know how to juice it, you can do amazing things with a bit driver, especially since you can put a lot of force to keep the bit set and still get it to turn.

⬐ matt_attack

Hard agree. Every ratcheting screwdriver I have has broken and now spins freely therefore is useless. It's just more complexity to break.

People tend to draw analogues to ratcheting wrenches but the entire point of ratcheting wrenches is to avoid having to remove them from the bolt to spin it making it easier to use in tighter locations. No such benefit exists for screwdrivers due to their geometry.

⬐ SulphurSmell

I am with you. Been messing with tools my entire life...have tried ratcheting screwdrivers of several kinds...Hard no. If I do lots of screws, I use a drill or impact driver. Or, failing that a nice 1/4 or 3/8 ratchet wrench with the appropriate adaptor + bit.

⬐ pwg

I've had a Snap-On SSDMR4B0 [1] for at least 25 years now. The usefulness of the ratchet is hard to describe, but easy to recognize after using one for the purpose of driving/removing screws. One big benefit, which only really reveals with longer screws, is the ability to drive or remove much more quickly than a non-ratchet type screwdriver. Also, the benefit is much more recognizable driving screws with significant resistance (i.e. wood screws into hard wood, or concrete screws into concrete or cinder-block). You can keep pressure on the screw, and just rotate the handle back and forth to drive in/remove the screw, reducing the chance of stripping out the screw head by releasing pressure to turn your hand or turn the screwdriver.

If you have ever used a ratchet wrench for nuts or bolts vs. an open-end or box wrench, the difference between the ratchet screwdriver and a regular one is much the same as the difference between using a ratchet wrench vs. an open-end/box wrench to tighten/loosen a nut or bolt.

The ratchet in their screwdriver, from the video, has a ratchet sound very similar to the Snap-On model I have.

[1] Current version: https://shop.snapon.com/product/Standard-Handle/8-3-4%22-Rat...

⬐ sokoloff

I have the same one (different color) that I got as part of a larger purchase of secondhand SnapOn tools. I probably wouldn't have initially laid out $75 [or even $40] for it, but after getting it as part of a package deal, I find it a lot more useful than I thought.

It seems similar to the "why do precision screwdrivers have that spinny part on the back?"

⬐ cercatrova

Is there a written warranty? They faced a lot of criticism for their backpack which didn't and the response from Linus was akin to "just trust me bro," which, when called out on, they made a t-shirt out of. Left me thinking that response was in very poor taste, making fun of your own customers' hesitations.

⬐ geerlingguy

Yes, on their product page it has a "LTT Screwdriver Limited Lifetime Warranty" that you can click to expand and read.

⬐ bobsmooth

Linus' whole point about warranties is that they're only as trustworthy as the manufacturer is.

⬐ mrguyorama

Except that's not even remotely true and he's wrong. The whole point of a written warranty is that it carries the force of the law behind it. I don't have to trust a business to "make things right" to attempt to get satisfaction based on a warranty.

His other point about "not wanting to leave a burden to his family" is also bunk. If your business has a bus factor of 1, that's on you, that's your fault, and you can fix that. Never mind that most business laws work out to remove personal liability from business liability.

He seemed to take it personally that people wanted written assurance that their $250!!! backpack could be fixed, despite the fact that he is on record, on the WAN show, talking about how Linus Media Group and Linus Sebastian are different entities with different priorities and often different desires about what to do in a situation. Even Luke thought he was going too far with his view and opinion on the matter.

Thankfully Linus seems like a reasonable person who is willing to do the right thing even if he doesn't personally agree with it, and they now offer a written warranty.

⬐ bobsmooth

If a company really wanted to, it could dissolve itself and the owners disappear. Even if you wanted to force a company to hold up its warranty you'd have to sue them, and who would do that for a $250 backpack? That is what Linus was trying to say.

⬐ mrguyorama

So what? I don't care what a business could do to attempt to violate my warranty rights, I care that I have my rights and can seek justice if they've been breached. Things are just sooooo much easier to deal with when established warranty law is followed.

There is no valid argument for "I don't want my customers to have warranty rights".

⬐ padjo

Your warranty rights are effectively non existent, that’s the whole point. You’d have to be an idiot or have very deep pockets and a lot of free time to try to enforce them over a 70 dollar screwdriver

⬐ kalleboo

It's pretty impressive how they've sold 60,000 $70 screwdrivers in under 48 hours

⬐ BeefWellington

The power of branding at work.

⬐ flopit

plus 23,000 $250 backpacks in the last few weeks

⬐ bigmattystyles

Is that expensive because it’s a way to support the channel or is it a really nice backpack?

⬐ Dylan16807

Mostly the latter.

Or at least, it has really high design goals and is expensive to produce.

⬐ brailsafe

That's a lot of coin!

⬐ jansan

Especially since you can buy a comparable product from Amazon Basics for 14€

https://www.amazon.de/AmazonBasics-12-in-1-Magnetic-Ratchet-...

⬐ rowanG077

Just like a 300$ dollar chromebook is a comparable product to a 2500$ Macbook Pro. Not that we really even know anything yet since the screwdriver hasn't hit consumers yet(with some small exceptions).

⬐ jgoewert

I could grab a handful of leaves of a tree and shove it in my face hole for lunch. It would be cheaper, but I prefer a salad made of lettuce.

⬐ jaclaz

I think it would be nice to put up an official (or unofficial) registry for owners of this tool, they should put a serial number on it, to be able to track them.

Besides the fact that IMHO a ratchet screwdriver (or more generally 1/4" bits ones) seems like very ill suited for working on computers (too bulky) usually screws on this kind of equipment are rarely very tightened and almost never (unlike in automotive/motorbike/industrial work) dirty/rusted/blocked, so chances of ruining any - if not el-cheapo, "decent" - normal ratchet screwdriver (or its bits) is near to 0.

But if Wurth sells(?) one for US$ 116.60:

https://www.wurthusa.com/Tools/Hand-Tools/Screwdrivers/Assor...

at around 70 bucks this one is a steal. /s

⬐ tuetuopay

I still don't get why they, as a tech channel with a tech audience, chose the default bit set to include Robertson instead of Torx. It'll be no surprise this driver will be used mainly in an electronics context, where torx is commonplace and robertson hardly seen, even more so outside of north America.

⬐ jonatron

It's a Canadian thing.

⬐ BeefWellington

While true, I've never seen it on a piece of tech.

If this is meant to be a general around-the-house screwdriver set, then the price point is way off. If this is meant to be more of a tech-focused set, missing Torx seems really dumb.

⬐ mrweasel

For most tech related tasks they could get rid of the flat-head bits and replace those with the Torxs. If they really wanted to keep the Robertson bits.

⬐ BeefWellington

I don't agree because I've seen plenty of consumer-grade tech that uses flat-head screws. It's becoming less common but as one example I have a couple of external USB-nVME enclosures that came with flat-head screws to open the external casing. Inside it's Philips.

⬐ brailsafe

Ideally if I spent 1 billion dollars on a screwdriver, I'd want it to be useful for general use as well

⬐ jsmith45

I have heard that many of those screws that appear to have both a long slot and Philips style plus shape, are actually designed to also accept Robertson, and that in so doing using a Philips driver on those screws has a much greater chance of damaging the screwhead. These are often seen on things like outlets and light switches.

(Note, many but not all are designed to accept a Philips driver, with a visible cross that slightly extends past the 45 degree angled robertson opening, plus having some visible slopes to the edges rather than near 90 degree edges that a screw deigned for only slotted or Robertson would be expected to have. But there are some that are strictly flat and Robertson only).

For those particular screws the best bit is allegedly the ECX bit, which is basically a Robertson Flathead combo bit, and the second best bit to use is the appropriate sized Robertson bit, with Flathead next, and Philips being best avoided.

This makes including a Robertson driver actually not too unreasonable. I in the US have plenty of switches and outlets could be driven with it.

⬐ mewse-hn

Robertson is really common for network closet / telco demarcation points in Canada

⬐ jccalhoun

I think they would be kicked out of Canada if they didn't. :-P

⬐ SayMyName

It includes a Robertson because that's what the whitelable screwdriver had, they just paid someone to slap a lable on it and call it R&D.

⬐ pikminguy

No they didn't. Watch the video.

⬐ leesalminen

The linked video goes into painstaking detail to explain how this isn’t simply a white labeled product. Do you have any evidence to support your claim that they’re lying?

⬐ bagels

It is my understanding that Robertson drive is very common in Canada, where Linus is located.

⬐ hbn

I live in Canada and that's news to me

I feel like most of the stuff I'd be using a screwdriver on came from the US, or Japan, or somewhere else. Especially electronics

I don't know if I buy that, LTT has never targeted a Canadian audience. If anything they try to make you forget they're Canadian. They only ever say US prices for things, which makes sense since that audience is way bigger. So I don't know why they'd target a screwdriver to Canadians.

⬐ Scalene2

They regularly reference them being Canadian, and sometimes do state Canadian prices.

⬐ goosedragons

It's mainly used in construction/industrial stuff here. The bookshelves in my office are screwed to the wall using Robertson for example.

I guess maybe they wanted a more general screwdriver? They don't seem to have the smallest bits either like you might want for general electronic repair or weird bits like the tri-wing or gamebit.

⬐ jbarberu

I always reach for the non-ratcheting screwdriver when working on electronics. I find the ratcheting mechanism on all drivers I've used to have too much resistance and just start screwing the screw back in rendering it useless and bulky. A bit drive with an end cap that rotates seems to work best for me.

For automotive it's a different story, but then I'd use a ratchet wrench anyway, and fixed screwdrivers in the engine bay as the bits like to fall off in the worst places.

⬐ tootie

Idk what you call it but ones with a back knob that spins freely so you can press with your palm to hold it in place are my favorite for tiny screws. I definitely prefer ratchet for bigger stuff.

⬐ rocqua

Those are called jeweller's screwdrivers.

⬐ afiori

They claim to have and extremely low resistance ratchet.

⬐ linsomniac

Last year I got a very similar looking Channellock that WireCutter recommended and I've really despised a few things about it:

The bits are not retained by magnet, but by a bit-mounted sprung ball bearing. If I don't push the bit in hard enough, it'll just fall right out when I turn it over. It's like that comedy bit: "What time is it?" when someone is holding a drink in their watch hand.

This probably is what led to the #2 Phillips bit being lost the first week I had it when my kids borrowed it to unscrew something in the yard, but that first week was pretty glorious...

And the bits are surprisingly hard to find. Searches on Amazon have turned up few if any replacements, and it doesn't seem like Channellock has a replacement bit set.

Finally, the ratchet mechanism is surprisingly easy to flip while using it, so most sessions I have with it I end up having to reset the ratcheting one or more times in regular use.

Admittedly, Linus talks up how much they worked on getting it just right, but I'd be reluctant to get another driver that used the ball bearing bits. I'd go with something that has replacement bits available, or uses the same bits that my power driver uses, because I always keep bits for it around.

I hate flat screwdrivers with a passion, but that one AvE made years ago is sure a thing of beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shnpPFQAugU

⬐ rowanG077

I don't think they use ball bearing bits.

⬐ linsomniac

You are correct, I mistook the sample they showed at 1:40, which was the other vendor (Megapro?), and they have ball bearing bits. I had stopped watching at 3-5 minutes in, and didn't get to the section on bits.

They do have custom bits, but say they will provide replacement bits, and also have a mechanism for using regular magnetic hold bits. That's pretty huge!

⬐ whoibrar

I wish more companies made videos like this.

⬐ Fnoord

I got passed the sponsor (had to laugh at the greed), got quite bored, and lost my attention span at about 5 min in. Just give me the information in a summary already instead of all the blablabla around it. Its like this all too often with videos. They don't get to the point, and refuse to provide a summary.

⬐ ilogik

here you go: https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver

it even has pictures!!!

⬐ cercatrova

Use SponsorBlock, it skips ads and non useful content automatically.

⬐ None

None

⬐ alias_neo

On the contrary, I loved this video going into the details of the process.

I'm an engineer, and a huge nerd though, and I've always hated ratcheting screwdrivers with a passion for the poor quality.

I can't wait to try out one of these, if for nothing more than to pay for the LTT entertainment/content I enjoy.

⬐ Fnoord

All I did was ask for a summary. Then those who want can go into detail, and those who first want to read a summary (which used to be quite normal when you read e.g. a news article) only read that, or decide afterwards if they want to read further.

Another commentator provided the summary [1], the feature set is available in text supported by pictures at the second half of this page (you can skip the first ~50% of the page if you want to read the summary).

[1] https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver

⬐ 4ggr0

This exact URL is also in the description of the video.

⬐ Fnoord

Hidden, rather, (in an advertising URL) and between all the spam I'm not interested in and which I tend to not read because of low signal to noise ratio.

They could've opted to not include all that spam for a video where instead of someone else's they sell their own product, but no.

The URL was also not marked as containing a summary, btw, and it wasn't on top. Why not? Because they wanted you to read their silly advertisement first.

⬐ Dylan16807

You didn't just ask for a summary. You strongly criticized the video for not also being a summary, which is very much barking up the wrong tree.

⬐ TradingPlaces

This is why Apple spends so much time making new products and puts such emphasis on secrecy. All the details matter.

⬐ some_random

Absolutely killed by the way the ad has an ad at the beginning

⬐ CivBase

If that got you, you might like their April Fools video that is nothing but ads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Slwai2Jhy_A

⬐ 3pm

Aside from Wera and Wiha, would be interesting if someone did a comparison with a PB Swiss. More expensive and harder to get in US, but should be very high quality: https://www.amazon.com/PB-Swiss-Tools-8510R-30-Twister/dp/B0...

⬐ immmmmm

yes swiss tools are amazing, at least the single function ones.

disclaimer: im swiss.

⬐ geerlingguy

I will be testing that driver specifically, just waiting for the LTT driver to ship. Hopefully Project Farm has one on hand too. The PB Swiss has the best ratchet feel by far, though it's a little tight—that's one thing Linus was adamant about on theirs, making it just loose enough that you can easily ratchet the blade with your fingers to tighten without rotating the entire driver.

⬐ dt3ft

Looks rather bulky for a screwdriver. Kudos on launching, hope they can at least make the cost that was sunk on the injection molds.

⬐ bombcar

The bulky part that worries me (and is why I don't use "bit drivers" usually) is right at the tip - it gets wider within an inch of the screw, which can be highly annoying.

I prefer the "longer bit" drivers that you can find (Milwaukee 48-22-2131 for example) but the best drivers in my experience are the screwdrivers with really long thin shanks.

⬐ KptMarchewa

They've now sold around 60k of them before even one reached customer. They'll be fine.

⬐ bongobingo1

Depends how it holds up and what their warranty program is like.

⬐ compsciphd

"trust me bro" :)

⬐ kmeisthax

They had a pop-up shop in Vancouver about a week ago or so where people could try them out in person and buy them. This was right before online sales, and Linus did this specifically so that he could...

- Have independent opinions of the product on the website

- Avoid "kickstarter syndrome" (since they have to have mass-production ready before selling them this way)

⬐ chunkles

Out of curiosity, did you watch the video or just look at the title image and make a call on the size? They actually spend a portion of the video discussing the size and how it is smaller than other ratcheting screwdrivers on the market specifically to fit well in all hand sizes.

⬐ zibby8

It's not just the ratchet that is bulky. It's the shaft that is bulky as well, which is necessary to accommodate the bit at the end. I inherited a screwdriver with this type of shaft, and it just doesn't work for a lot of screws due to clearance issues. As a result, I have a set of normal screwdrivers, which makes the one with changeable bits totally redundant for all but the most esoteric bits.

⬐ dt3ft

I did, both the video and the pictures on their website. It is too bulky for my taste, sizably larger than what people tend to use here in Europe. It must also be heavier, due to it housing the metal inserts. But then again, I'm probably not their target market. It's a niche product.

⬐ jaclaz

Yes, but I wonder which niche.

The 1/4" socket and shaft is bulky (as well as the handle) and the ratcheting is largely unneeded, a good set of screwdrivers, unless there is a portability issue, is much more practical in a workshop.

⬐ mdtusz

I'm a bit surprised and amused by the comments here. It seems like suddenly everyone is an expert in industrial design, mechanical engineering, and product development while simultaneously missing the entire point of the product and being unable to see past the LTT brand.

I for one applaud them for pushing through to release this, and while I probably won't buy one, they certainly look well made and thought through. Obviously a ratcheting multi-bit driver won't be as robust as your Klein Phillips driver that you use while working on transformers in your day job, but that's not what it's intended for - it's for the average person who needs a handy screwdriver to keep in their car or kitchen junk drawer to pull out quickly when you need to twist some screws.

⬐ seqastian

Because it's the first time they made a tool and found out it's hard as they went.

⬐ systems_glitch

Here to flog my personal favorite "insert bits and ratcheting" option:

https://chapmanmfg.com/products/5573-deluxe-standard-metric-...

Same money (slightly less), made in USA, the kind of quality tool you find in the locked part of the old plant maintenance tech that everyone else asks for help.

⬐ numlock86

Linus Trust Tips pulling off another "Trust me, bro!"-warranty here or did they do it properly this time?

⬐ andrew_

Perfectly balanced, until you lose a bit.

⬐ what-imright

Three years to make a screwdriver. That says it all

⬐ ghosty141

No it doesnt. Have you ever developed any product?

⬐ what-imright

Yea, I have. But look designing something often comes from the heart. You see a need and dream of filling it as a foothold for the next person in their experience. It’s a conquest, for others. But someone that designs a new screwdriver, with a trillion already made, is in a different place. You can extrapolate the world view from what people create, or aspire to.

⬐ designcode

Imagine because they’re first time product designers.

⬐ Havoc

They’ve been making merch for years, just perhaps nothing of comparable mechanical complexity

⬐ shapefrog

tshirts / hoodies != custom designed mechanical item with many moving parts.

⬐ yurishimo

They have in-house clothing designers as well that specifically tailor each garment before mass production. None of their merch from the past 2 years is "off the shelf" in any way.

⬐ DrudgeCorporate

Their engineer that they hired specifically for this task had years of previous experience. It's stated in the video.

⬐ Kye

There's an interesting contrast of opinions in this thread between people who think the goofy, hyperactive, sometimes careless character he plays is the real Linus and people who've seen a few videos on the kinds of people he hires to work on stuff. I didn't know anything about the person he hired to run the new lab before the video on the subject[0], but now I'm looking forward to all the tests that come out of it.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2QLwXQq1Us

⬐ tpmx

This is one of those threads where you find the correct answer at the bottom.

⬐ bigyikes

The primary employee responsible for the screwdriver seemed to be a production engineer with 10 years experience. I’m also aware of experienced product designers they employ. Linus himself has product management experience, and probably employs some PMs too.

⬐ tpmx

> The primary employee responsible for the screwdriver seemed to be a production engineer with 10 years experience.

The first primary employee responsible for the screwdriver was the affable but very young Alex ("I know SolidWorks"). I like his car review videos!

Then towards the like the last third of the project lifecycle they hired this guy with a decade of experience, but wasn't it mostly in EE?

> Linus himself has product management experience

In a PC hardware reseller company. That's about making decisions about what products to buy/stock, not about designing/building something. Quite different. He's most likely aware of the difference, but was still using that phrasing in the video. shrug.

⬐ SeanLuke

A screwdriver that fits custom bits. In an industry that has standardized bit design. This seems set up for failure. I understand the reason they did it. It's not a good reason.

⬐ pmarreck

You must have not watched the whole thing. There's a "ninja star" (they call it) which when turned allows it to store (fewer) standard bits.

⬐ whermans

Shorter bits, but with an industry-standard diameter. You can use third-party bits.

⬐ compsciphd

no, it fits standard bits, the length of the bits is smaller so it can hold more in its internal carry. there's a difference.

⬐ philliphaydon

It fits standard bits. The bit loader holds standard long bits, just 6 instead of 12…

People are clearly commenting without actually watching the video.

⬐ SeanLuke

I watched it but missed this somehow.

⬐ omega3

For the same price you could get a Wera screwdriver, small screwdrivers and a bottle opener.

https://products.wera.de/en/kraftform_kompakt_kraftform_komp...

https://products.wera.de/en/screwdrivers_series_kraftform_mi...

https://products.wera.de/en/tools_for_bicycles_and_e-bikes_f...

⬐ Kye

There's a reason this is sold right next to t-shirts and mouse pads. This is to support a channel and get something useful in return, not for people who are looking for the best value. LTT does at least put a lot of thought into the stuff they sell. It's not just white-label mystery meat from the cheapest manufacturer in Shenzhen's industrial district. I learned a lot more than I ever thought I wanted to know about Pantone from their video on the Pantone towers they bought for the designers.

⬐ walrus01

Or Wiha, which is also a very reputable German-manufactured steel hand tool company. Similarly named to Wera but a competitor.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=wiha+scre...

they make some excellent torx, security torx, hex, precision screwdriver sets. in addition to the larger stuff they make for 600/1000V insulated electrical use.

⬐ vparikh

I second Wiha screwdrivers. I have been using them for years. In fact I am still using the set I purchased (Wiha #30299) that has every type of screw driver I you could come across in normal US products Slotted/Phillips/Torx/Pozidrive and Square). I keep them in my tool chest - been there for 21 years and still going. Bought $120! - https://bit.ly/3B7FtCn

I addition I am using the Wiha 26-IN-1 Tradesman multi bit screw driver - love it. Has every bit you would commonly need - I keep one in the office and one in the kitchen drawer. Fantastic tool - $36 - https://bit.ly/3q1sYCa

Can't see the point of spending this kind of money on this.

⬐ kabes

And Wiha actually came out better than Wera in some project farm tests. After I went all in on wera screwdrivers and bits. Even though I rarely need them, it hurts.

⬐ acomjean

My brother gave me one. It’s really quite a nice driver. The insulation is nice and the bits work really well. I find the grip quite comfortable.

Much better than the “mr ratchet” driver set I got in the 90s..(one oddly wasn’t. Ratchet driver)

⬐ nyanpasu64

Personal story, I ordered https://www.wihatools.com/products/precision-phillips-screwd.... On the plus side, the Phillips screwdrivers are hardened and almost impervious to camming out/slipping (but can still strip on bad screws if you don't apply any pressure), unlike my cheap Amazon screwdriver kit which chewed up Phillips screws for a living. On the downside, the PH0 screwdriver's endcap wasn't spinning freely (until I cut a bigger gap and it spun freely but had increased plastic-on-plastic friction when I pressed down on the screwdriver), and I went through support to get a replacement PH0 screwdriver; I'm not sure whether to feel better or worse about the company. Shape-wise, the screwdrivers are not suited for applying large amounts of torque, but that's not a design defect but a result of being precision screwdrivers and the shape chosen. Next time I might try a Wera screwdriver, or an iFixit kit (https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Tools/Minnow-Driver-Kit/IF145-4... is the cheapest multi-bit kit but not the most popular one).

I wish electronics were built with Torx screws. Those are practically impervious to stripping if fully inserted, even with the cheapest steel possible (though cheap steel drivers can probably still deform and strip). I've heard mixed things about using JIS (looks like Phillips, isn't Phillips) screwdrivers on Phillips screws, and good things about using them in JIS screws.

⬐ walrus01

are you quite sure you weren't trying to use a pozidriv bit in philips screws/bolts, or vice versa?

⬐ nyanpasu64

The cheap Amazon kit I was cursed with looks identical to https://www.amazon.com/Syntus-Precision-Screwdriver-Electron.... The product is advertised as S2 tool steel, but I think this is a lie since reviews complain of soft steel, eg. "my T6 stripped right away with no resistance" and "I don’t have much use for either set".

I think the Phillips tips are both too soft, and misshapen and too tapered so they cam out easily (often stripping the steel in the process) rather than locking solidly onto the screw socket. I do not see any Pozidriv bits with diagonal ridges in this kit, though some older screwdriver kits I have contain them.

⬐ koziserek

Just beware - this iFixit’s set, I assume by the looks of end cap on the photo, it comes with a plastic handle. Bigger sets come with screwdriver made fully out of aluminium. Much better quality, feeling, lower friction.

⬐ hollywood_court

Wera makes quality stuff. I keep a small set of Wera drivers and sockets in each of my vehicles. And I keep one of their multi drivers upstairs in my office and one downstairs in the kitchen. They get used weekly.

⬐ snapplebobapple

I love wera too, their tool check plus stuff is so portable and so versatile. I keep a set in each of my vehicles and a set in the house (that solves 99% of my tool needs, I break out my big tool box maybe once a year at home now that I have this).

⬐ exhilaration

A cursory Google search suggests all of their manufacturing is done in Germany, the Czech Republic, and Taiwan -- is that right?

⬐ bombcar

That is correct. Wera are often considered "top tier" in the screwdriver arena.

⬐ tomcam

I just like knowing that there’s a screwdriver arena

⬐ greycol

Their bottle opener is great, I spent a while looking for a decent one and ended up with it without knowing the wera brand beforehand. I'm not joking when I say I've bough some of their tools because the bottleopener was such good quality.

⬐ rhinoceraptor

I have the Wera ratcheting driver, and I don't really like it that much. The shaft is pretty wobbly from the handle, and there's a ton of slop when you have it locked and not ratcheting.

⬐ geerlingguy

Surprisingly even a $16 Doyle driver from Harbor Freight has less slop in its ratcheting mechanism. Overall the Wera feels very nice but its ratchet isn't great.

⬐ rhinoceraptor

I'm also wary of tools with any kind of rubber overmolded handles. That rubber is going to break down after about 10 years, it will be sticky and you'll smell the butyric acid vomit smell. I've remember seeing a video of a 15 year old Wera driver with that issue.

⬐ serf

I own 20 year old overmolded Wera drivers that look a million times better than hard plastic Snap-On equivalents.

Not all over-molded things use rubbers that'll break down quickly; and some don't even use rubber at all now that there are performant urethanes and other choices in the arena.

⬐ 2rsf

I can confirm, without knowing the name I bought one of their sets and it was the first time I enjoyed using screwdrivers without cursing

⬐ hallz

The Wera 816 RA Ratchet Screwdriver is good (I got it in the set). The best part is the quick connect which allows you to use any standard bit with it. Interchangable with your impact driver and if you break one you can just replace it.

The advantage of having the quick connect right at the handle is that the bit shaft is as thin as possible which is really handing for dissassembling products/things where a screw is down in a deep recess.

The ratchet does take a little bit of force to engage which does make it average for pc building.

⬐ skjoldr

LTT had Wera, Wiha, and other screwdrivers available during their streamed sales event for people to compare their screwdriver to, so considering the volume of sales they still managed to achieve, it ought to be better than a Wera for some. Though I'd still prefer a Wera Kraftform Kompakt 20, the telescopic bit holder is neat.

⬐ jansan

Out of curiosity I have ordered an Inbus Flow which claims to have a "contious" ratchet system. Inbus has a high repurtation for hex keys, so let's see what they can deliver.

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B093QGMF4S

⬐ dsego

Or something like this socket wrench set, the screwdriver handle with a T-bar comes in handy.

https://www.proxxon.com/en/industrial/23080.php

⬐ _HMCB_

Can you buy their stuff in the USA? Looks amazing.

⬐ selectodude

Support our friends at Klein. They also make exceptional screwdrivers.

⬐ rkagerer

Yeah after reading some of the Wera reviews on Amazon.ca I think I'll stick with my Klein.

⬐ Wistar

My top pick.

⬐ mauvehaus

They're also available almost everywhere. Your local electrical supply almost certainly sells them and Home Depot has them in the electrical aisle.

Bonus: they sell cabinet tip screwdrivers in the common slotted and Philips sizes.

Edited to add: Snap-On also makes good screwdrivers, and your friendly local garage can probably tell you when the Snap-On truck comes by </edit>

If you need quality slotted screwdrivers for slotted screws with both the width and thickness of the blade specified, you'll likely need to find your local gun and ammunition store (and they'll likely be a special order even there).

Gunsmiths and sewing machine repair people are just about the last people on the planet who care about the blade fitting the slot well in both directions for a wide variety of screw head sizes.

⬐ convolvatron

with very little practice you can easily shape a screwdriver tip with a hand file

edit: its also helpful to do a quick-n-dirty case hardening if you have a gas stove or other way to get it dull red

⬐ serf

>If you need quality slotted screwdrivers for slotted screws with both the width and thickness of the blade specified, you'll likely need to find your local gun and ammunition store (and they'll likely be a special order even there).

or any marine shop. slotted fasteners abound across the seven seas.

⬐ omega3

If you're in USA I'd just buy something local made. I've not used it personally but I've heard good opinions: https://www.amazon.com/Williams-WRS-1-Magnetic-Ratcheting-Sc...

⬐ MisterTea

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/tools_...

⬐ colechristensen

You can buy things from other countries and have it shipped here. But yes, Amazon has Wera products.

⬐ soperj

Maybe, could be a chinese knock off brand posing as Wera, you'll never know until it's shipped.

edit: looks like Wera tools specifically are sold by a bunch of different people on Amazon, NEMobile, and BCFasteners are a couple that I've seen, so really no idea what you're getting.

⬐ colechristensen

Eh, Amazon was just an easy example.

Grainger stocks Wera in the US

https://www.grainger.com/category/tools?brandName=WERA&filte...

⬐ soperj

Added bonus being that Grainger doesn't track you all around the internet.

⬐ 3pm

https://www.kctool.com/

⬐ _HMCB_

Awesome. Thank you!

⬐ lostapathy

KC Tool are great people - I highly recommend them.

⬐ aaron695

None

⬐ TheCapn

This is pretty common in my experience? Market some relatively common item to an out-group of individuals at stupid markup based off brand recognition alone and reap the rewards. LTT looks to be flexing his brand here on unsuspecting PC enthusiasts where anyone with more experience in the electrical trades knows where to get higher quality tools for better/similar pricing.

I'll compare to my time in Paintball years ago. Any site marketing woodsball gear to paintballers had nutty markups, but if you went to any Army Surplus or Hunting outfitter you could get a lot of similar gear for way cheaper at better quality because it wasn't marketed specifically to a niche sport relying on brand name alone.

It happens all over the place. Consumers not doing their due diligence have only themselves to blame.

⬐ cowmoo728

I don't understand the assumptions in this comment. Linus is selling a screwdriver that he designed and would not otherwise exist, and that he believes is better than any other screwdriver available. That's different than selling a common item at high markup. It would have been more profitable and far less work to put the LTT brand on an existing screwdriver.

I'm still not going to buy it because it's too expensive and I don't care enough. But most of the cost here is associated with a small player trying to make a product from scratch rather than using existing tooling, molds, parts, etc. That seems very different than how you characterized it.

⬐ isitmadeofglass

> Market some relatively common item to an out-group of individuals at stupid markup based off brand recognition alone and reap the rewards.

Yes, but is that really so bad? I mean you can get cheaper T-Shirts with better quality than the ones at the merch stand at concerts. People don’t buy them because they are under some delusion that their great value for price. They buy them to support the creators, and to be able to show and talk about their support of the creator to others.

⬐ kaladin-jasnah

Another example: I feel like DACs have the same problem where companies like Schiit market their products to Hi-fi enthusiasts when you can get an audio interface with similar performance for a much lower price.

⬐ defterGoose

These types of products generally fall under the header of "lifestyle brands", and IME are experiencing a big boom right now due to the advent of "influencers".

⬐ ptasci67

I take the video with a grain of salt of course but just to be fair here, the video spends the majority of its time explaining in great detail why Linus did NOT just slap his name on a megapro screwdriver. I actually found the minute details of how they designed, prototyped, and stressed over the screwdriver quite fascinating and while it may or may not translate to quality... it at least is a weak signal to me that someone considered every facet which I believe is somewhat correlated with quality.

⬐ rowanG077

I bought one with most extra bit sets. I don't have any good screwdrivers and wanted to buy a good toolsetnfor years but never got around to it. And I honestly don't want to do the hours of research to find an actual good quality deal.

Instead I outsourced this decision to ltt. I trust them much more then some random tool company.

⬐ mtmail

70 USD https://www.lttstore.com/products/screwdriver

⬐ lathiat

I've always wanted some kind of curation of products that are obviously designed better than the rest (for better or worse). They often have a price tag but functionality to match. Of course, the required functionality is not the same for everyone can often you can make do with the cheap good enough. You always need to choose, just the same as product design I guess.

Some of the best I've had:

  - Crumpler Backpacks (Dry Red No 5 & an older model I don't remember the name of)
  - Bellroy Slim Wallet
  - Bellroy Passport Wallet
  - AirPods Pro
  - UniFi AC Pro Access Points
  - 2018 Subaru Outback Premium