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There are four stages of mental stillness as per an awakened meditator mentioned in his book [0]. As per my understanding, you seem to be at stage 3 which is a great achievement.

> On your journey so far, you’ve come off the freeway and you have driven through a suburban road. Now, you’ve hit the countryside road, the third stage of mental stillness. Just like effusive rivers rush into the sea but the sea remains unmoved, the mind of a yogi remains unaffected by the rise and fall of thoughts and emotions. Sea is not always calm, it has tides and it can get tempestuous, but such choppiness is not an everyday affair. A meditator in the third stage can have rough periods but they are far and few in between. From my experience, less than half a percent of meditators get to the third stage of mental stillness. This is not because they are not earnest about it but because wrong meditation does not lead to improvement. When a meditator has gone past the first two stages, they develop an unfailing stillness of mind that reflects through their actions, thoughts and speech. The energy of a stage three meditator has a quieting effect on those around him. The third stage is the countryside road. You can drive for several miles before you come across any other vehicle. Green fields, meadows, pastures, pristine air, blue sky, expansive views, beautiful landscapes, quiet surroundings, no rush – ah, the pleasure of countryside driving! You can go slower or a bit faster, you choose your own pace. The conditions permit you to do that. A meditator who has reached stage three learns to harness and channelize his thoughts. Most of their sessions comprise spans of quiescence and bliss with occasional thoughts emerging here and there, on and off. They don’t get up all relaxed from their meditation, for relaxed they already are, otherwise it would not have been possible to get to this stage. Instead, they get up feeling supercharged, refreshed and alert. A great meditator is always alert. Alertness is not only the reward but an essential ingredient for good meditation. A stage three meditator can easily sit unmoving for three hours.

I'd recommend you also read on Kundalini [1]. You have a great chance of awakening it in short time and experience the supreme level of bliss and peace.

Also, I request – it'd be great if you can join https://os.me/ and share your practice/experience as posts with spiritually inclined seekers out there.

0: https://www.amazon.com/Million-Thoughts-Meditation-Himalayan... 1: https://www.amazon.in/Kundalini-untold-story-Om-Swami/dp/818...

⬐ jackdawed

I've had several, intense Kundalini experiences! I know for certain that I can achieve a classical Buddha awakening in this lifetime, as long as I take care of myself.

⬐ TriNetra

Glad to hear that. Pl do read that book on Kundalini till the end. The author has it awakened, and there are clear signs when it fully awakes, including one getting control of involuntary systems of the body. The author has got a lab to verify the same – listen about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIFchJ3epsk&t=2938s

And another study published as a research paper on his voluntary control of brain regions: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8717094./autho...

there's a yogic practice – known as Trataka (Still Gazing) – which can fix short-sightedness or myopia. Giving it from the book A Million Thoughts (on meditation) [0]:

> How to Do It Right

1. Assume the standard yogic posture for meditation, preferably cross-legged.

2. Light a candle, at a distance of about three feet, in front of you. You can also keep any other object than a candle if you prefer.

3. Ensure the candle or any other object of focus is at your eyelevel.

4. Watch it unblinking for a minimum of seven minutes. You can gradually increase the duration.

5. During the actual practice, try to be aware of your wandering thoughts and gently bring your mind back to the object.

> Please see the chart below:

> You will notice that still body and still gaze are red impact items, which means if you move your body or shift your gaze while practising trataka; that is instant failure. Reset the clock and start again. If you are unable to control your eye movement and end up blinking, it’s not a problem, simply be mindful and carry on. You may experience your thoughts flow. Ideally it should be restricted but it is natural and a green impact item, which means you don’t have to stop your practice. Let us say you decide to do trataka for a period of seven minutes. For those seven minutes, you must be still like a rock restricting your eye movements as well. It is important to not blink at all. Tears will start to roll down, but you should stay unmoved. If it gets really uncomfortable, you can blink. The ability to not blink improves over time and with practice. Each time your mind goes off the tangent, bring your focus back to the object. You can do trataka on any object, but doing it on a candle flame has a purifying effect on the mind. It is best to do the practice at least twice a day: in the morning and before going to bed at night.

> Steadily and gradually increase your ability to stay unblinking as part of this practice. It requires patience and resolve.

0: https://www.amazon.com/Million-Thoughts-Meditation-Himalayan...

⬐ in3d

The evidence looks mixed. Worked here http://www.libraryofyoga.com:8080/jspui/handle/123456789/182... but wasn't effective in this study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5769202/.

⬐ TriNetra

The study notes:

> as the participants were students, they were asked to perform the exercises and the Trataka before and after the college hours, respectively. This caused inconvenience for the students to do the activities regularly.

As mentioned from the book, the exercise has to be done regularly for 40 days at least, with the quality required as mentioned. The study itself disclaims the quality in the effort of participant, so there's not much doubt that it couldn't replicate any significant result.

Not to say that Trataka will work for everyone; however, yogic exercises are harmless (if you follow the instructions from authentic sources), and those are usually helpful if you're able to apply them properly.

So, there's no harm in trying

Try A million thoughts https://www.amazon.com/Million-Thoughts-Meditation-Himalayan...

⬐ wcoenen

This book may have value to learn something about meditation, but it also has exactly the kind of "mystic woo" I was talking about.

In the first few sentences it talks about the "soul" wanting to return back to it's source, the "supreme consciousness". Then a couple pages further, a statement about reincarnation:

"If you don’t believe in rebirth then this book will be of little use to you. As I said earlier, meditation to me is the most powerful tool to harness and channelize the restive and other tendencies of the mind we’ve been carrying with us over lifetimes."

You can try a yogic practice (Trataka – Still Gazing).

>>> Many years ago, someone who used to work for me was struggling with poor memory. He wanted to be alert and disciplined but it was almost like laziness was a disease and he was suffering from it. Not in the physical sense because he was out and about working on stuff all the time but there was no productivity, focus or any significant output. We (him and I) figured he severely lacked focus. I told him to practice trataka for three months every day. It would help him with his memory and focus. He followed the instructions diligently and at the end of three months, there was remarkable improvement in his memory and recall. But, memory improvement wasn’t the main thing. As a result of the practice, another, totally unexpected, thing happened. He reported a blurred vision in spite of wearing spectacles. He went to the optometrist only to find out that he no longer needed the prescription glasses (for short-sightedness or myopia). He had been wearing glasses for more than a decade. I’ve observed on numerous occasions that yogic practices do channelize the flow of various energies in the body. It changes your gaze, gait and movements. It even affects your speech in its own positive way. You slow down a bit but become more effective, more mindful. An unfailing sign of a true yogi is stillness of the gaze. Even some advanced meditators struggle to keep their eyeballs still (even when their eyes are closed). Stillness of the gaze has a remarkable effect on the energy flow in your body. There is a specific yogic practice to perfect your gaze. The method of fixing your gaze on an object is called trāṭaka. Movement in the eyes, flickering of the eyelids represent a subtle flaw in your posture as well as meditation. Practice of trataka is the best practice to eliminate this flaw. Like all other yogic practices, do it every day for at least 40 days to benefit from it.

Excerpted from: https://www.amazon.com/Million-Thoughts-Meditation-Himalayan...

> How do I tell the difference between myself achieving enlightenment and merely having an opinion that I have achieved it?

How would you describe a state of mind in which you remain thoughtless as long as you want? Thoughts will only arrive in your conscious mind when you summon them and you can hold a thought as long as you want. You remain perfectly peaceful, tranquil without blabbering and urges of the mind without exerting as in meditation. Meditation is no longer an act but a state of your mind.

When your mind is perfectly under control without effort, you have become awakened (or enlightened), because now you truly possess a free will in the truest sense of the word. Earlier when your mind was in control, your innate tendencies were driving your actions, based on external stimuli. Anger, greed, lust, envy, fear and other negative emotions thrive in such a state of mind naturally and one has to exert to check them.

I'd urge you to try concentrative meditation, wherein one tries to hold a thought (could be visualizing a form, or listening to a sound ETC) and see the power of conditioned mind. Observe how long you can hold it. For instance, if you're visualizing a form, you may discover that within matter of few seconds it starts fading, dancing or completely gone. Similarly If you are meditating on sound, you will find that within few seconds your mind has distracted and you have to exert to retain your focus. The mind is not in your control and such a conditioned mind can form opinions and dilute you. But an enlightened mind, perfectly in control cannot have delusion and ever lives in present moment. Opinions and judgement are tools of a conditioned mind, ever fearful and constantly striving to ensure survival of the body.

That said, I'm not yet an enlightened being; I'm striving for it by walking path of meditation, kindness and chanting [0]. I do have experiences and glimses confirming most of what I've written, but I have not attained the final state yet. If you're truly curious and want to read, learn and practice more about this, I'd encourage you to read Om Swami's books. The one on meditation [1] takes you through the journey of a meditator with states and stages of mind and awareness that you'll find intriguing and hopefully interesting to pursue. Simple yet precise methods and practices have been given along with a method to measure one's progress.

0: I use Black Lotus app for logging and measuring my meditation and chanting sessions as well as random acts of kindness (RAKs) (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rt.pinpric...) - inspired by same author 1: https://www.amazon.com/Million-Thoughts-Meditation-Himalayan...

⬐ gridlockd

First of all, how do you know that all these people claiming enlightenment - exactly as you describe it - aren't all full of shit?

Secondly, let's say it's all true. Why is that so desirable?

> But an enlightened mind, perfectly in control cannot have delusion and ever lives in present moment

It's perfectly possible to live in the present moment and disregard the future even without meditation. That's not generally considered a good thing, though.

> Opinions and judgement are tools of a conditioned mind, ever fearful and constantly striving to ensure survival of the body.

Yes, your body has adapted to survival. What's wrong with that, why do you want to turn that off? You'll die anyway, are you really that impatient?

I guess if you're somehow in constant terror about the plight of existence, that might be a useful skill to have. Otherwise, I'd rather learn something else.

⬐ kr4

> First of all, how do you know that all these people claiming enlightenment - exactly as you describe it - aren't all full of shit?

Exactly as in any other field of expertise. Through your practice, knowledge/experiences you gain from that practice. Mere reading the books doesn't take one far in any field.

> Secondly, let's say it's all true. Why is that so desirable?

Who says it's desirable to everyone? It's individual's choice. If you get pleasure in learning something else, feel free to do that.

But someone might also want to go to the source of pleasure so he can maintain state of pleasure at all times regardless of circumstances outside, meditation is one sure way to that. Just like a hard core engineer may want to know how the whole thing works down to transistor, some people eventually get this desire to experience their whole being down to one's soul and even the super soul. Such people aren't satisfied being mere servant to the needs of body or mind for whole of their lives. They want to experience the eternity if there's such a thing. It's an arduous but a rewarding journey, with wonderful experiences at every little milestone on the path. But this thread isn't an appropriate place to write details about them.

Btw if you are thinking meditation or enlightenment means withdrawal from the world, or becoming something inert or passive, or stop enjoyment/learning, then you've not understood it correctly.

⬐ gridlockd

> Exactly as in any other field of expertise. Through your practice, knowledge/experiences you gain from that practice.

But as you said, you're not quite there yet. How do you know that what you described is really achievable? What else can you do but take other people by their word? Some people claim that through meditation, they could literally levitate. What's to stop anyone from just claiming something that's impossible to prove wrong?

It's not that I doubt meditation can have profound effects on one's psyche and well-being, but at some point I just don't don't buy it, like when you speak of a "constant state of pleasure". I don't think that's physically possible, at some point the receptors in your brain will need time to recover.

⬐ kr4

> But as you said, you're not quite there yet. How do you know that what you described is really achievable? What else can you do but take other people by their word?

I've read somewhere that it takes 10k hours to master anything. Let's consider example of a musical instrument, say Piano, that you're learning. It will take you 10k hours of sincere practice to reach to a state of mastery in which playing piano will be a subconscious, effortless act, you'd be able to listen to any song and start playing it. However, this effortless will be preceded by state of conscious competence in which you can play a song after listening it, but it takes some effort and even then, it's not perfect. You know you're progressing but you're not there yet. You can see the goal but you also know that it'll take good effort to reach there.

Another advantage you have at this stage is you can appreciate the expert player from a charlatan. It's not easy to fool you anymore.

So, you can consider me that 3k hours pianist re meditation. I started practicing meditation in 2014 inspired by this HN post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6910041

>> The Really Unexpected My forehead caught on “fire”. No--really. This was the single strangest event of the entire challenge, and I have no explanation for it, but what took place was that after about 30 days, the centre of my forehead felt like it was emitting or radiating what I can only describe a kind of heatless, lightless flame.

I started in June2014 and my first experience happened in about a month. I've never stopped meditating daily ever since (apart from some not-so-frequent days of urgent work/function/illness) (I try to do it in three sessions in morning/evening/night) The experiences continue to come. Then if you read books by expert meditator, you'll be able to relate their experiences with yours.

> Some people claim that through meditation, they could literally levitate. What's to stop anyone from just claiming something that's impossible to prove wrong?

Why do you believe such a claim? Let that person demonstrate it if he's so claiming. You don't have to believe anything or anyone. But at the same time, you shouldn't reject something without giving it a chance. Both of these are functions of a conditioned mind blinded by a sense of superiority that what it knows is the truth and that it cannot be wrong.

ON a related note, the problem for spirituality is that people get attracted to it by these stories of wonderful powers that they can gain, and lose the sight of true goal of Yoga: to reach to a state of union with one's eternal, imperishable atman (soul). That's actually a good test of expert: he will not sell meditation or other practices as a means to attained powers. He knows such powers (even if considered possible for a moment) are a hindrance in awakening and these are just another form of material entertainment for the conditioned mind while the goal is to rise above conditioning to experience state of oneness with the universe; with atman. Once you have become that, you can yourself verify if you really can get these powers, chances are, you will no longer be interested in them.

> but at some point I just don't don't buy it, like when you speak of a "constant state of pleasure". I don't think that's physically possible, at some point the receptors in your brain will need time to recover.

Who says you won't need rest? As long as you're in this physical body, you'll need rest. But the source of your joy will be within rather than dependent on external factors like money, appreciation, fame, success ETC. which keep on changing. You'll be able to maintain your state of inner peace and bliss even in absence of these.

⬐ keymone

> Let that person demonstrate it if he's so claiming

that's the point - with ridiculous claims like levitation there's simple way to verify them. with psychological claims of enlightenment - there's no way to verify them. you basically took people on their word and are trying to achieve the same, but how can you know they didn't fool you and you're not fooling yourself? how can you know your brain isn't creating an illusion of enlightenment just so you stop depriving it of dopamine?

⬐ kr4

It's possible to give not one but multiple proofs to a genuanly curious mind; however, it's impossible to prove anything otherwise to a mind which has already made up an opinion.