HN Books @HNBooksMonth

Not only is Nina Teicholz a well-established journalist, but she is the author of this book, which made a huge splash and has 2,000+ Amazon Reviews: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

I recently quit taking statins. My decision was motivated by reading two books:

"Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes

https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-About/dp/0307474259/

and

"The Big Fat Surprise" by Nina Teicholz

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

Finding that statins would lengthen my lifespan by at most ~30 days or less really chapped my ass (i.e.,irritated me), given that so much time and effort went into prescribing/ordering/buying/taking/monitoring statins on a regular schedule, along with their attendant blood tests (Total cholesterol, LDL, HDL, triglycerides et al) and time spent listening to my fear-mongering physician:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=how+long+will+statins+lengthen...

When I faced my doctor down about this he fell back to saying that "you increase your probability of a heart attack by 17%". He neglected to say how significant it was that, in the last year alone, I had lost 15 pounds, increased my exercise level, now slept better and had improved my diet significantly. He went through the motions but I stood firm. In desperation he threw out "But high blood pressure is strongly correlated with increasing age and you can't turn the clock back!" I countered that my blood pressure is better than it's ever been and that I intend to reduce it further. Then I told him that the cholesterol hypothesis is dead [ed. the cholesterol hypothesis is the idea that cardiovascular disease is caused by high levels of cholesterol in the blood stream]:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=is+the+cholesterol+hypothesis+...

With that, he seemed dumbfounded and finally stopped selling me statins.

We've fallen back to a previous era where physicians in the USA are useless except for trauma intervention and as gatekeepers for antibiotics (and other newer drugs). If the USA would allow pharmacists to prescribe (as is done in Europe) we could save trillions of dollars. But physicians' prestige and power would be reduced to a shadow of what they are today. Time to put them back in their proper place.

Covid-19's revelations of the flawed advice of "experts" has been enlightening. Every expert source has failed in big ways: epidemiology is a laughing stock, the FDA, WHO and CDC have dropped the ball repeatedly, given flawed advice, reversed guidelines and in general, established a baseline of SNAFU FUBAR:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=SNAFU+FUBAR

But my physician is no better: he's been selling me bullshit for decades.

And now this article. Grrr! Good thing my blood pressure is under control!

⬐ ncmncm

In the past year my diastolic BP declined from 90 to 60, which seems miraculous. I can't credit exercise or diet; all I can think of is that, commuting less, I sleep more.

Lately we have learned that both dietary saturated fat and cholesterol are absolutely harmless, and that all the harm blamed on them turns out to be caused by trans fats and sugar; and that all this was already known even 50 years ago.

You can't buy a bag of dextrose/glucose at the supermarket; the closest you get is corn syrup, so I have to order it online. I have discovered that hot cocoa made with dextrose tastes not quite right until you add just a pinch of cane sugar. It drives home how how sucrose is more a drug than a food.

⬐ sushid

I agree with your sentiment but it's funny that you mention doctors being "gatekeepers for antibiotics." They're still not good at that.

Most doctors have not updated their theory on gut microbiomes and still overprescribe antibiotics for unnecessary use.

⬐ haltingproblem

Your comment simultaneously infuriated and gladdened me.

Infuriating that a physician was so behind the times as to actively try to brain damage you, ok, I exaggerate but not by too much. My physician tried to push statins on me when I went on Keto but I found a cardiologist who does keto himself and he gave me a clean bill of health. Not that I would have taken statins if he had not.

Glad that you took health into your own hands and did the necessary research. It is insane how much can be discovered in a few hours of research and studying on the Internet. There is no going back!

Most of the people are ignorant about the things and fat they put inside their body (that includes me). Please check this video on Vegetable Oils: The Unknown Story by the author of the book "The Big Fat Surprise" [1][2].

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2UnOryQiIY

[2]https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

You're right that ketogenic diets don't have to be meat-centric. This is why I promote the carnivore diet and not the ketogenic diet.

Not all of the resources I pointed you to are about ketogenic diets, though -- some are about carnivore diets. For instance, there are the books of Vilhjalmur Stefansson who lived for years on a meat-only diet and was monitored at Harvard while on this diet.

Nina Teicholz also provides a phenomenal tour of the literature and demonstrates that a lot of the science does in fact support a carnivore diet. You should look up some of her phenomenal lectures on YouTube, or read her book The Big Fat Surprise: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

If you would like to contribute to getting more research done on the carnivore diet, then you can donate here: https://www.gofundme.com/f/carnivore-research

⬐ bird_monster

I appreciate your desire to evangelize a thing you believe in. I am not really asking about the benefit of a ketogenic diet, I am asking specifically about the ways in which a Carnivore diet increases the benefits of ketosis as opposed to just a normal Ketogenic diet. The book you linked seemed to be in advocacy of dietary fat, which both Ketogenic and Carnivore diets both agree with. That is again not really what I'm asking.

I'm also not really sure why I would donate money to a cause I do not believe in/that is not backed by science.

⬐ jononomo

The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more.

The problem with plant-based foods is that they contain fiber and a bunch of anti-nutrients but the ketogenic diet permits this. Once you cut out all plant-based food then you experience the wonders of an elimination diet -- because you have eliminated anything in your food that you might have a mild allergy or reaction to.

Things I noticed when I went carnivore were: improved skin, improved nasal breathing, cessation of heartburn, improved bowel movements, dramatically fewer bowel movements, weight loss and muscle growth, a complete cessation of farting/gas, more ear wax, less joint pain, less water weight (because no carbohydrates), more stable energy and mood, and probably a couple more things I've forgotten.

It is true that there are not a lot of studies that have been performed on the carnivore diet. But beware that human nutrition is almost impossibly difficult to do large randomized controlled trials on. This is simply an extraordinarily difficult area in which to get the science right, which is why the US dietary guidelines are such a bunch of crap and we've ended up with an obesity epidemic and chronic diseases such as diabetes and heart disease absolutely rampant.

There is one way in which you can perform elite nutrition science, however -- you can experiment on yourself. I urge you to try a carnivore diet for six weeks and just observe the results. Stick to steak, eggs, sardines, fish, bone broth, beef liver, and ground beef. Avoid dairy and don't drink any calories. This is an extraordinarily difficult diet for people to follow for some reason (because they are carb addicts) but it is nutritionally overflowing and you will see dramatic effects if you stick to it.

⬐ bird_monster

> The carnivore diet is not necessarily a ketogenic diet, although it is an extremely low-carb diet. However, the carnivore diet gives you all the benefits of ketosis and a lot more.

I am asking you to support this claim with science-based research, that explicitly studies the differences. The rest of your post is mostly just noise if that research isn't readily available.

I am more than aware of the troubles of doing legitimate scientific research at scale on diet. And yet, you yourself were able to provide scholarly articles on the benefits of a Ketogenic diet.

I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past. I am also an extreme skeptic at fad diets like the Carnivore diet. I've yet to see a single piece of legitimate evidence to suggest that the Carnivore diet is anything more than a Joe Rogan-backed ketogenic diet.

⬐ jononomo

Can't you just try the diet and see for yourself? That would be a lot more reliable way to determine the effects of the diet on your health than waiting around for decades for research that may not ever be properly conducted and which in any case would have been conducted on someone else. If you try the carnivore diet then you can just see the results for yourself in yourself. What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks?

⬐ bird_monster

From my post:

> I have done both carnivore and generalized ketogenic diets in the past.

> What's the downside to eating nothing but eggs, sardines, and ground beef for six weeks?

Probably wasting six weeks of my life eating an unnecessary and suboptimal diet, for starters.

As many have said -- cholesterol is not indicative of much, HDL can be useful but still not much. First thing I would do is study a little bit about it, I found this book very informative, The Big Fat Surprise https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

I've been Keto for 18 months and it's changed my life (I've previous tried Paleo, Vegan, Vegetarian, Pescetarian, and a few others) -- I also got my blood tested 6 months after starting and I was in "perfect" levels according to the nurse -- but cholesterol specificaly is a terrible indicator.

LDL is correlated but not causative and it's been discovered that HDL is a much better indicator.

Take a look at this book: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy/dp/14...

It goes into it quite a bit more -- cholesterol is a _terrible_ indicator of overall health. This is well known in the Keto community.

⬐ krustyburger

And the opposite is well known in the Whole Foods Plant-Based community.

I don’t have a horse in this race but appeals to authority when it comes to the science of diet are highly suspect.

⬐ KerryJones

Nah, I used to be on a plant-based diet -- have done quite a bit of research. This is _not_ well known in the community, but sure, a few under-researched people in the group might say that has to do with it.

⬐ rantwasp

when you use LDL, HDL and cholesterol interchangeably this tells me that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Cholesterol itself is part of the lipid membrane of every cell. It’s essential. When people say “high cholesterol” they usually talk about high cholesterol carrying lipo-proteins in the bloodstream. high ldl is definitely a risk factor for CHD

⬐ KerryJones

I didn't use them interchangeably...? Did you mean to refer to someone else?

⬐ eebynight

How do you explain what Dave Feldman refers to as the lipid triad which is common in people that are on a low carbohydrate diet?

In this case, there is not sufficient evidence that those who have elevated HDL, LDL and low triglycerides have higher rates of cardiovascular disease...

https://cholesterolcode.com/a-dialog-on-the-lipid-triad-with...

⬐ rantwasp

not familiar with this fellow but if I had to guess I would say that in some cases ldl-c (volume) is high while ldl-p (count) is low leading the ldl not to cause as much damage as it a high number of particles