HN Books @HNBooksMonth

Great resource, thanks for sharing. My business accounts aren't too complicated but there are a few quirks which seem to stop me from migrating over from Freeagent, namely:

. Client + invoice integration

. Invoice preparation, with translated templates

. Multiple currency invoicing, with auto-calculated gain/loss

. Cashflow reports

. P+L, balance sheet

. UK tax calculations for self-assessment and for corporation tax

There's a chance I could replicate some of this in Ledger, but that's got time, energy and potential mistakes written all over it.

The accountant I work with charges more than average (from what I can tell - I pay £1k per year all-in, more or less, rarely have to lift a finger) but a) includes me on their own Freeagent [0] license ('saving' £300 pa) and b) is very tax efficient.

Knowing what I now know after years of working with accountants, however, there's an outside chance I could be as efficient without the associated costs. But then a contact of mine pays £500 a year for their accountant to submit official accounts and has to do his book-keeping manually, with no real cashflow oversight. Plus with ever-changing regulations and the ability to more easily sell or obtain credit for the business, it really makes sense to work with an accountant, as far as I can tell.

Anyone else wrestled with this before? I take it some of you might have, as this CLI accounting approach seems to appeal to us DIY'ers.

This year I do intend to get serious about accounting and my approach to finances. First I'm going to read Financial Intelligence for Entrepreneurs [1], as previously recommended on HN and elsewhere, to get a handle on what I ought to be looking at on a regular basis. Then I'm going to start to follow my new YNAB [2] account closely, although the use of that is unfortunately complicated by one of my accounts not importing statements automatically (the import option in the web application is not visible, despite the docs mentioning one) and so I may have to manually add all transactions which... I'm not keen on doing.

I found a spreadsheet that does what YNAB does, but without the bells and whistles, and with manual data-entry, I'll pay for the modestly priced online offer if it turns out to be simple enough to use.

Overall, it's not that things are in bad shape, but they could be better and I'd like to know what to focus on to ensure stability and growth.

So yes, interested in DIY accounts, but not able/willing to contribute to improving them just yet.

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[0] - https://lukespear.co.uk/2011/07/online-accounting-for-freela...

[1] - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1422119157/

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Need_a_Budget

⬐ pyvpx

I am wrestling with it now, because I cant justify spending 150EUR/month _and_ 1500EUR at year end to keep books and file returns. I have but six to ten invoices a year, and only myself as an employee; but such an animal doesn't seem very interesting to every relevant tax and accounting professional I've inquired with in Berlin. Perhaps it is the "English" premium, but at those costs I'm stuck spending more time than I care, at possibly greater risk than I am aware of, trying to do my own paperwork and books. In a system I mostly grok from (translated!) blog posts!

⬐ luxpir

That isn't cheap. It keeps you above board, so that's worth its cost already, but offshoring is such a grey-area that it might not pay to even investigate it if you ever fell foul of any local regs. I once knew a Swede who successfully operated his business through a HK company, but how feasible that is now, and how well that fits into German regs is beyond me.

Your affairs sound so simple I'm surprised there isn't the equivalent of a low-cost, online-only type of accountant in Germany. Plenty of those here, at least, in GB.

My other thought was for you to enlist the help of a local to call around for quotes to confirm whether or not you are being quoted an "English premium".

⬐ miseg

Is that the price for an accountant, right?

I pay a bookkeeper to keep our books, and the accountant only comes into the picture at the end of the year when the company's accounts need to be filed and corporation tax needs to be paid.

Our company pays more for those services than your quote above, but if you're not incorporated as a company surely you could get a cheaper way to file returns?

At the least, you could take the monthly bookkeeping side of things away from your accountant.

⬐ matt4077

I have British friends in Berlin who run a bar and they pay around 800€/year. I don't know what your business is like, but I'd imagine a Bar is on the complicated side of things (lots of small transactions, changing personell etc).

You probably don't even need to do double-entry bookkeeping. If you look at your files from the last years, it should be pretty easy to figure out how to handle the different transactions. It only gets complicated when you start hiring people (as employees, not contractors) or have debt/investments.

Your accountant should at least let you do the monthly stuff yourself (usually very easy: just add the VAT you charged) and then do the yearly accounting for much cheaper, as long as you can get him/her the data in an easy=to-process format.

⬐ pbowyer

> The accountant I work with charges more than average (from what I can tell - I pay £1k per year all-in, more or less, rarely have to lift a finger)

There's accountants and accountants, and £1k for an accountant who knows their stuff is reasonable. I prefer that to having a glorified book-keeper-cum-accountant who doesn't think beyond what's needed to do the paperwork, as some of the larger firms targeting small companies have become.

⬐ luxpir

Thanks for confirming that. I only had a few data points to go on so far. I did work with a small one-person-band £300/year accountant for a while, but then paid for the Freeagent account on top of that (£300) and didn't feel that the accountant was doing more than, as you say, the paperwork. Still, helped with securing a mortgage, so not all bad.

I'd recommend the following books: Financial Statements Step by Step (http://www.amazon.com/Financial-Statements-Step-Step-Underst...)

Financial Intelligence (http://www.amazon.com/Financial-Intelligence-Revised-Edition...)

Financial Intelligence for Entrepreneurs (http://www.amazon.com/Financial-Intelligence-Entrepreneurs-R...)

Another great resource is Financial Intelligence for Entrepreneurs:

http://www.amazon.com/Financial-Intelligence-Entrepreneurs-R...

So far is the only book I know that explains why and not just what.

I wrote a book that covers general/universal business principles: http://book.personalmba.com

For common funding and legal issues, I recommend "Venture Deals" by Brad Feld and Jason Mendelson: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470929820

For finance and accounting, I recommend "Financial Intelligence for Entrepreneurs" by Karen Berman, Joe Knight, and John Case: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1422119157/

Here's my complete list of recommended business books, sorted by topic: http://personalmba.com/best-business-books/

Hope this helps.

⬐ orangethirty

Very nice resources.

⬐ swanson

I'm a big fan of Personal MBA - there are short, digestible chunks about the general business topics, with curated references if you want to dig deeper. Great format IMO

Thanks Josh!