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I don't understand question #1. Maybe you can rephrase?

#2 requires a mix of (i) reference interviews, and (ii) digging into details during candidate interviews. Read these books to learn how:

* Who: https://www.amazon.com/Who-Geoff-Smart/dp/0345504194

* Topgrading: https://www.amazon.com/Topgrading-3rd-Promoting-Turbocharges...

⬐ kritiko

Thanks for responding.

Question 1 is basically how do you define impact? What does a candidate who has not made an impact (or made a negative impact) look like in an interview? The reason I ask is that it strikes me that there are so many intangibles in business outcomes.

I'm also curious about how you conduct and benchmark your reference interviewing - I have given lengthy reference interviews for colleagues taking executive roles, but those references were extremely rose-colored. There's no incentive for me to be candid.

⬐ rahimnathwani

mason55's is spot on: keep digging. If someone really did something, they can easily answer any detailed question about it, including what alternatives they considered/tried.

Re #2, you have to control the interview, and come armed with questions to draw people out. 'kritiko mentioned their difficulty defining concrete measures for the outcome of their work. Can you tell me about the impact that's had on the team?'

Re: #1, I recommend reading 'Radical Focus' and Move (Patty Azzarello). A PM should be able to define measures of impact, and be able to communicate why they are important. If they can't do that, how could anyone trust them to prioritize features/whatever?

⬐ mason55

(Not the OP)

One thing I always ask about but find to be especially helpful with less technical roles is to go into the whole process. Start with what they accomplished but keep digging. What other options did you consider? What were the trade offs? How did you decide your approach was best? What lessons did you learn and how did you apply them in the future?

Those questions can all be BSed but at a certain point if you have good answers for them then you at least know what you’re talking about even if it’s all made up.

Then I usually combine with some kind of concrete exercise that relates to the actual job. For product managers I like to give some kind of product strategy (either something we’ve done or something we’d never do to avoid people feeling like they are doing free work) and have them put together a product proposal. The more junior they are the more guidance they get and the more it’s a test of turning a discussion of features into clear requirement. If they’re more senior it’s about turning strategy into a clear product.

The second part has caught a number of people who said the right things but couldn’t execute, or at least not in a way that was compatible with our culture.

⬐ kritiko

This is really insightful. Is the product strategy problem typically a take home? In my experience, “product whiteboard” exercises have always felt like a bit of a party trick when I’ve encountered them. The discovery phase gets so truncated in order to get to cover design/implementation etc. Basically a Fermi problem but “show me your framework.”

⬐ mason55

Oh yeah, definitely take home. After we’ve made it pretty far so that the candidate doesn’t feel like we’re just asking them to do an exercise as a form of screening.

I also try to frame it as the exercise is instead of two more interviews where people would ask the same questions, and tell them not to spend more than a couple hours, although there’s no time limit.

Trying to be really conscious of all the limitations and asks of “take home work” for an interview. I will say, especially as they get more senior, I tell them to make assumptions and document the assumptions they made. It’s part of the job (making good assumptions and communicating them to everyone) and I think it fits well into the framework of a take home product strategy exercise.

This is my list for this Summer (Southern hemisphere here):

* [reading] Atomic Habits (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1847941834)

* [reading] So Good They Can't Ignore You (https://www.amazon.com.br/gp/product/1455509124)

* 97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1492050903)

* The Manager`s Path (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1491973897)

* The Five Dysfunctions of a Team (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0787960756)

* Overcoming the Five Dysfunctions of a Team (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0787976377)

* Who: The A Method for Hiring (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345504194)

* Power Score: Your Formula for Leadership Success (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345547357)

I'm not sure I'll get to all of them but I spent quite some time researching them and think this is a good list.

I usually read 2 books simultaneously because I like to read them and let certain things sink in. It provides a nice way to link some insights.

⬐ riffraff

I read "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team" a few months ago, it's quite good. The narrative delivery makes it a very easy read, and it has some ideas which are useful in basically every situation where collaboration is necessary.

Some additional great resources related to hiring:

How to hire your first engineer - https://blog.ycombinator.com/how-to-hire-your-first-engineer...

Convincing Engineer to join your team and a basic structure for the process - https://blog.ycombinator.com/convincing-engineers-to-join-yo...

General thoughts about hiring - http://blog.samaltman.com/how-to-hire

The book "Who" gives a good idea about a good process. Hard to apply when you are not looking for a "generalist" - https://www.amazon.com/Who-Geoff-Smart/dp/0345504194/

Some of the manager tools podcasts episodes - https://www.manager-tools.com/map-universe/hiring-0

Edit: formatting

⬐ wtmt

Thanks for those links. If you see this soon, could you please edit your comment and remove the code block formatting for the five bullet points and instead use a blank line between each point to add newlines? [1] It’s difficult to read on a smaller screen and requires horizontal scrolling back and forth.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc

⬐ mildweed

How to run a solid, basic technical interview: https://slides.com/scottconnerly/2questioncodequiz

The best book on hiring, no doubt, is Who: http://www.amazon.com/Who-The-A-Method-Hiring/dp/0345504194

We used it to build our hiring process for http://www.thinkful.com/ and it consistently proves valuable.

We also use it to help our students prepare for job interviews.

⬐ dpritchett

I'm seriously put off by any talk of topgrading and 'a/b/c player' ranking.

Have you gathered much data on the success of this book's approach in your firm? I'd love to hear a positive take on it.

⬐ freework

Agreed. I think anyone can be an "A" player under the right conditions. Under different conditions, the same person can be a "D" player. I know I've had jobs were I was the wonderboy who was regarded as an A player all around. I've had other jobs where I was the black sheep "F" player who gets fired after one week of employment.

⬐ dfriedmn

First commenter's co-founder here: Sure, you definitely need to screen for culture fit. There are great people who would be bad fits here. That said, we want people who have succeed in most positions they've had in the past. If there are two people who have had 4 jobs in their career, you're way more likely to pick the better if you favor the one who outperformed in 3 of those 4 jobs rather than 1 of the 4. When you combine that with looking closely at their experience as it fits with the role, and their fit with the culture, then you have a complete screening process.