Hacker News Comments on
Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen
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All the comments and stories posted to Hacker News that reference this book.I'm currently reading Born to Run[0] and they spend a couple of chapters discussing the history of running shoes and how they may be counterproductive. The main point being the Tarahumara (ancient running people) are the best distance runners on earth and they wear homemade sandals.Looks like this[1] post goes into the debate, as framed by the book, but I'm on mobile and haven't read through it so YMMV.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greates...
[1] https://www.chrismcdougall.com/born-to-run/the-barefoot-runn...
⬐ notacoward> the Tarahumara (ancient running people) are the best distance runners on earthPretty sure the Kenyans, Ethopians, etc. might have a word or two to say about that.
More importantly, the emphasis in "may be counterproductive" should definitely be on the first word. Actual real-world results haven't matched the theory. Sure, there will always be someone to provide anecdata about how they switched to minimalist running shoes and it was great. The ones who switched to minimalist running shoes and either injured themselves or didn't see any benefit and switched back tend to talk a lot less. Statistically it's a wash, and ends up being pure personal preference. People who run poorly will improve exactly enough to make up for the difference in shoes, and no more.
⬐ sin7I thought it was documented that Kenyans and Ethiopians benefited from steroids and EPO. It was all over the news the past decade or so.⬐ notacowardSome Kenyans and Ethiopians have been caught using those drugs. So have some Americans, some Canadians, some Germans, some Chinese ... you get the idea. It's true of elite athletes in any country and any sport, just about. Generalizing from "some" to "all" for one group while ignoring prevalence of the same problem in other groups is not a good look. No suspicion has fallen on the folks who currently hold world records, won the last several major races, etc.⬐ sin7Some Russians too. Maybe all Russians.Truth be told, I don't know and it matters very little to me. Yet I have read more than one article about Kenyans and hiding in the mountains from testers. Maybe it was propaganda, but I read it.
I have no dog in this fight. I'm sure Kenyans are great runners. Maybe the best.
⬐ notacoward> I have no dog in this fight.No runner in this race? :D Merry Christmas.
Anyone know what book he's referring to that made him rethink exercise & physical fitness?Edit: Maybe this? https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greates...
that is because most runners use padded shoes, which enable you to run in a totally unnatural way.>this kind of collision leads to a rapid, high impact transient about 1.5 to as much as 3 times your body weight (depending on your speed) within 50 milliseconds of striking the ground (see graph a below).
>This is equivalent to someone hitting you on the heel with a hammer using 1.5 to as much as 3 times your body weight. These impacts add up, since you strike the ground almost 1000 times per mile!
taken from:
http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu/4BiomechanicsofFootSt...
It is impossible to run this way with undamped shoes or barefoot.
I recommend this book (not affiliated):
https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greates...
is really fun to read, it is about a indigenous tribe in mexico which run in sandals cut from old tires, for 24 or 48 hours straight. In there is a reference to another study where they found a correlation between cost of the shoe and the rate of injuries: more expensive shoes with better damping had higher rates of injuries, they weren't expecting this.
Our legs evolved to store the energy in our tendons and release it to propel us forward. A QUARTER of the bones in our body is in our feet! Humans evolved to be the best endurance runners on the planet, being "naked" (without fur) is actually an advantage for running, enabling us to cool down our bodies by sweating. There are still tribes hunting their prey by running after it for prolonged periods till it collapses from overheating. There are races for horses, humans started to compete in. Initially the runners where ridiculed but someday a human won the race.
Had the same thought.https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greates...
Reminds me of the book Born to Run. For anyone who has taken any sort of interest in running, I highly recommend it. http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greatest...
⬐ esolytI'd recommend it even more if you're not interested in running. It might change your mind.⬐ whalesaladCompletely agree.
http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Hidden-Superathletes-Greatest...It's a fun story too. I don't know if we're actually born to run or not, but it's inspiring either way.
⬐ krat0sprakharWow that was fast! Thanks a lot :)⬐ silverlakeYou might like this story from This American Life. I was listening while driving, was totally mesmerized, and ended up in Wisconsin.http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/80/tr...
http://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Superathletes-Greatest-Vintag...There is a whole book written about this. There are several conversations in the book with this same professor. I would definitely say this book has changed my life.
In more than a few places, I was pretty sure that book was written specifically for me. My dad was in the process of getting knee surgery right when I picked it up. There was a section that detailed a doctor visit the author had, where the doctor told him his only recourse was to have the same surgery my dad was having. Two years later, the author (who didn't have the surgery) is still running barefoot around central park, yes on asphalt and concrete and any other substrate you can imagine. My dad is not. My dad used to come home and run for hours every day after work. Now he doesn't run at all.
Just thought I'd share some points in the book that I love and find relevant to this discussion so far...
Not mentioned in the article but Lieberman talks about it in the book, is the fact that all four-legged animals can only breath one time per stride. A running cheetah operates like a large bellows. When he extends, his diaphragm (which is attached to the pelvis) pulls back and forces the lungs open, forced inhale. When they stride, all their organs literally slosh forward in their horizontal bodies, compressing the diaphragm, forcing an exhale. Humans standing upright allows us to breath whenever we feel like it while running. No other animal can do that.
Also about the Man vs Horse race. Unless the dude sitting on the horses back is a sumo wrestler, it probably doesn't count for much. A horse that is 1200lbs of muscle has a 150lb man sitting on his back. That's equivalent to wearing a 10lb backpack. I'm not saying you wouldn't notice it, but you can't blame the backpack for losing the race. The real reason is that a horse can only outrun a human for 10-15 miles, at which point the horse has to slow down to a maintainable pace, or die. Humans have no such restriction.
And as for running on asphalt - we have the best shock absorbers science has ever seen...they're called knees. Air cushioned soles and arch support, pronation and supination control, torsion bars, built in computer chips to monitor your (incorrect) foot strike and adjust the shoe on the fly are all awesome - if you won't be needing your feet ankles and knees in old age.
I don't recommend many books, but read this one. Even if you don't run, hate running, have never run in your life. You will love your feet when you're done.
"Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307279189?ie=UTF8&tag=...
⬐ HeyLaughingBoyI just finished this over the weekend and thought it was great. What did you think?