HN Books @HNBooksMonth

The best books of Hacker News.

Hacker News Comments on
Lingua ex Machina: Reconciling Darwin and Chomsky with the Human Brain

William H. Calvin, Derek Bickerton · 3 HN comments
HN Books has aggregated all Hacker News stories and comments that mention "Lingua ex Machina: Reconciling Darwin and Chomsky with the Human Brain" by William H. Calvin, Derek Bickerton.
View on Amazon [↗]
HN Books may receive an affiliate commission when you make purchases on sites after clicking through links on this page.
Amazon Summary
A neuroscientist and a linguist show how evolution could have given rise to structured language. A machine for language? Certainly, say the neurophysiologists, busy studying the language specializations of the human brain and trying to identify their evolutionary antecedents. Linguists such as Noam Chomsky talk about machinelike "modules" in the brain for syntax, arguing that language is more an instinct (a complex behavior triggered by simple environmental stimuli) than an acquired skill like riding a bicycle. But structured language presents the same evolutionary problems as feathered forelimbs for flight: you need a lot of specializations to fly even a little bit. How do you get them, if evolution has no foresight and the intermediate stages do not have intermediate payoffs? Some say that the Darwinian scheme for gradual species self-improvement cannot explain our most valued human capability, the one that sets us so far above the apes, language itself. William Calvin and Derek Bickerton suggest that other evolutionary developments, not directly related to language, allowed language to evolve in a way that eventually promoted a Chomskian syntax. They compare these intermediate behaviors to the curb-cuts originally intended for wheelchair users. Their usefulness was soon discovered by users of strollers, shopping carts, rollerblades, and so on. The authors argue that reciprocal altruism and ballistic movement planning were "curb-cuts" that indirectly promoted the formation of structured language. Written in the form of a dialogue set in Bellagio, Italy, Lingua ex Machina presents an engaging challenge to those who view the human capacity for language as a winner-take-all war between Chomsky and Darwin.
HN Books Rankings

Hacker News Stories and Comments

All the comments and stories posted to Hacker News that reference this book.
Ya, cool metaphor. Boids meets reactive programming.

In a book stuffed with ideas, Lingua ex Machina: Reconciling Darwin and Chomsky [2001] had two metaphors that have stuck with me.

There are Darwinian processes within the brain. Like your ear hears some noise, could be interpreted as either "cap" or "cat", those two possibilities fight it out until one wins.

There's a song, some kind of pattern sequence, weaving back and forth, which might be how parts of the brain intracommunicate, which might be how memories are encoded and retrieved (and may also explains why memories are changed by being recalled).

https://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Machina-Reconciling-Darwin-Cho...

I also remain enthralled by the notion that our brains are prediction engines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Intelligence https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Brains-New-Theory-Intelligen...

I want some kind of synthesis of your spreadsheet and Hawkins' prediction engine metaphors to be true. That'd be cool.

Nice. Will read.

One of the many notions from Lingua ex Machina [2001] is the evolution from protolanguage to proper language. From nonrecursive verb-noun clauses to recursive subject-verb-noun clauses.

https://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Machina-Reconciling-Darwin-Cho...

That book had so many intriguing open ended questions, before we had the tech (ability) to verify stuff. IIRC, others were:

the way the neocortex is organized into hexagonal columns, which I think is what Jeff Hawkins (et al) is working on;

how notions compete inside our head using Darwinian processes;

how thinking (consciousness) may be like resonance across our brains, like a song.

Thanks again for the link. Am noob, so just barely grasp this stuff, but am excited nonetheless to learn about more recent findings.

We live in an age of miracles.

--

Summary copypasta from Amazon:

A neuroscientist and a linguist show how evolution could have given rise to structured language.

A machine for language? Certainly, say the neurophysiologists, busy studying the language specializations of the human brain and trying to identify their evolutionary antecedents. Linguists such as Noam Chomsky talk about machinelike "modules" in the brain for syntax, arguing that language is more an instinct (a complex behavior triggered by simple environmental stimuli) than an acquired skill like riding a bicycle.

But structured language presents the same evolutionary problems as feathered forelimbs for flight: you need a lot of specializations to fly even a little bit. How do you get them, if evolution has no foresight and the intermediate stages do not have intermediate payoffs? Some say that the Darwinian scheme for gradual species self-improvement cannot explain our most valued human capability, the one that sets us so far above the apes, language itself.

William Calvin and Derek Bickerton suggest that other evolutionary developments, not directly related to language, allowed language to evolve in a way that eventually promoted a Chomskian syntax. They compare these intermediate behaviors to the curb-cuts originally intended for wheelchair users. Their usefulness was soon discovered by users of strollers, shopping carts, rollerblades, and so on. The authors argue that reciprocal altruism and ballistic movement planning were "curb-cuts" that indirectly promoted the formation of structured language. Written in the form of a dialogue set in Bellagio, Italy, Lingua ex Machina presents an engaging challenge to those who view the human capacity for language as a winner-take-all war between Chomsky and Darwin.

> ...doesn't deny the common structure of cortical columns, but posits that they don't have a known function.

Listening to an interview w/ Jeff Hawkins for "A Thousand Brains", it reminded me of Lingua Ex Machina [2009].

"A neuroscientist and a linguist show how evolution could have given rise to structured language."

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/lingua-ex-machina

https://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Machina-Reconciling-Darwin-Cho...

I tried to dig a bit, to see if there's a connection between Jeff Hawkins and William Calvin's works. No joy. I'm probably just grasping at straws.

Am just a curious layperson. It's been ages since I read On Intelligence and Lingua Ex Machina. At the time, just the notion of Darwinian processes happening within the brain rocked my world.

HN Books is an independent project and is not operated by Y Combinator or Amazon.com.
~ yaj@
;laksdfhjdhksalkfj more things
yahnd.com ~ Privacy Policy ~
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.