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Yes, I know, the Washington Post article ... This is conjecture from Alan Bullock, several historians disagree with him ... The wikipedia article is much more accurate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitle...

It's interesting how much you know about the internal intentions of a human without knowing his language and I guess without ever have read a speech or book by him.

I studied the 3rd Reich ever year in high school, I read Hitlers speeches and am familiar with also my personal family history. I could talk with a lot of eye witnesses even people who met Hitler. I can tell you that this is conjecture.

Oh I feared you use Judeo-Christian ... there is no Judeo-Christian tradition in Europe. Jews were outcast and regarded as second class citizens or as none at all ... (here also Hitler is more continuing a tradition than breaking it, building on antisemitic sentiments to execute the Holocaust). It's a term that was coined in the US and mostly established during the 2nd world war.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/legal-and-political-ma...

In Germany, we usually refer to the Abrahamic religions and traditions and beliefs. Again, same as with "Western" it's interesting what you are excluding with using that term of Judeo-Christian (also it's very contested under Jewish friends of mine ... they find it offensive).

History and progress is complex. If somebody claims sth. gave "singularly ... rise to" ... "among other things, the scientific revolution, the enlightenment, and the constitution of the United States." I'm highly skeptical, especially if only "Western."

In terms of scientific progress, I recommend https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Us-Humans-Transformed-Another...

⬐ PathOfEclipse

Just because you don't like a term doesn't mean the term isn't describing something real. And, just because a term was invented to describe something in the past, doesn't mean the term isn't describing something real. And, finally, every term both includes and excludes, else it has no meaning!

Your linked encyclopedia article looks very biased and misinformed. For one, Wikipedia states the term has been used since the 1800s. I also personally don't think "Judeo-Christian" excludes Muslims, who, to my knowledge, inherit this tradition by believing in parts of both the Old and New Testaments: From https://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Portal:_Islam_and_the_Judeo-C...

"The Qur'an makes constant reference to the stories of the Judeao-Christian tradition. The references are familiar and sometimes in passing, and assume a great deal of familiarity on the part of the listeners. The audienceof the Qur'an was clearly one well-acquainted with the stories themselves and the Qur'an itself says that it is a "reminder" (73:19) of the message which has come before. The stories referenced are not only from the Bible, but come from a wide variety of literary traditions within ancient near east Christianity and Judaism such as the Alexander Romances, saints lives, and the Talmud."

Historians disagree about everything, and everything is up for conjecture because the man isn't alive today, and we can't read his mind. That said, here is some more evidence:

From: https://www.independent.com/2011/04/29/hitler-hated-christia...

Martin Bormann, one of Hitler’s closest and most influential aides, declared that National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable, and Hitler himself said that Christianity was a religion of fools and “old women.”

Hitler declared that “The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity…. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.”

And from: https://thenewamerican.com/hitler-and-christianity/

According to Baldur von Schirach, the Nazi leader of the German youth corps that would later be known as the Hitler Youth, “the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement” from the beginning, though “considerations of expedience made it impossible” for the movement to adopt this radical stance officially until it had consolidated power.

Really, this is just common sense. Hitler was many things, but a clumsy politician was not one of them. He knew that until he had “consolidated power,” he would have to erect a façade for a Christian people and the Church; this is probably why virtually all his pro-Christian statements were rendered publicly and before he had closed his iron fist around the German neck.

⬐ kgarten

Christianity, Judaism and Islam make constant references to each other, as they are the Abrahamic religions. They share similar value systems, prophets and texts. Read Natan the Wise for a nice fable about that ;)

I think you didn't mean the term as such but the value system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian_ethics

I thought you used the term Judeo-Christian tradition focusing on values (e.g. ethics). The 1800s meaning does not really make sense as it refers to Jewish converts to Christianity not to shared values. The shared value idea is from the America's in the 1940s not from Europe. It was never used in Europe like that before the time around the second world war, as Jews (and Muslims) were seen as foreign elements and discriminated against for most of the European History. From your wikipedia article:

"Historian K. Healan Gaston has stated that the term emerged as a descriptor of the United States in the 1930s, when the US sought to forge a unified cultural identity in an attempt to distinguish itself from the fascism and communism in Europe."

If you don't think that the term "Judeo-Christian Ethics or Values" excludes Islam, maybe we can term it "Judeo-Muslim Ethics" ... Christianity is in the middle, should be ok for you to use the new term ;) It's shorter and everybody knows that Christianity has to be included in it. My point why not use the older, correct term "Abrahamic"? I think people should be precise with their language.

There are people that argue that Islam has a different value system and does not fit in with the other two religions. Yet, those are usually extreme right wing. Angela Saini takes their view point pretty well apart. Being christian and having religious Jewish and Muslim friends in Europe, I feel we share more than most Evangelicals I met in the U.S. (I just say intelligent design ... ). None of my European friends has any trouble with Evolution (and trusting in Science ... because it works ;)

⬐ PathOfEclipse

I suppose I prefer Judeo-Christian because:

1) I think the most important piece is the Christian part.

2) Judeo- at least recognizes the heritage of Judaism Christianity owes much to.

3) I am not convinced that the Islamic religion has uniquely contributed anything of significant value morally or religiously beyond religions that came before it, namely, Judaism and Christianity. Inheriting good values is far different than contributing your own values to society. I haven't read Saina's book or studied the history of Islam much, though, to be honest, so I could be certainly missing something.

⬐ kgarten

1) because you are Christian ...

2) do you consider how Jewish people feel, who were prosecuted, discriminated and killed by Christians, when you refer to Judeo-Christian traditional values? The early massacres in Europe on Jewish people were mostly done by Christians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism As I said, my Jewish friends get quite rattled and angry if somebody uses the term.

3) For one: religious tolerance: when other religions fought religious wars, Islamic countries were the first who tolerated other Abrahamic religions.

Also the impact of Islam and Muslims on philosophy is enormous. For example, we would have lost most of Ancient Greek texts without the Caliphate ... the Caliphate saved them and developed them when Christian countries were thinking about holy war :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_world_contributions_to...

They occupied Spain for a long time, brought irrigation, math (the concept of 0), geometry and a lot of other sciency stuff to Europe. You know how the Christians responded, getting all that tolerance, knowledge, and culture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista#Conversions_and_ex... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

Interestingly, they also forced Jews to convert ... this seems where the first citings of your used word "Judeo-Christian" comes from (the Inquisition lasted until the 1800s). Can you understand that Jewish people might not be found of you using it, now.

Oh and when Christians still used bloodletting to remove "evil spirits", Islamic countries had actual medicine.

Yet, you are probably right, they didn't contribute anything. The only contributions that count are the contributions of our tribe and what other Christian authors say about them.

⬐ PathOfEclipse

A small counter, since this conversation is over, but I said "religious" contributions. Almost all the contributions you listed were non-religious in nature. I am well aware that, at one point, Muslim nations were far more advanced than Christian nations, and that we owe much to them in the realms of math, science, and the preservation of history. It's also nice to hear that they practiced religious tolerance better than Christians, too, at least at one point in history.

And also:

1) Because I have evidence of the influence of Christianity on the entire world, but no such evidence for the faith if Islam. I am not saying that evidence doesn't exist, but you yourself certainly failed to provide any.

i'd be remiss not to mention the author (Ainissa Ramirez's) wonderful book, "The Alchemy of Us," (https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Us-Humans-Transformed-Another...) which explores how materials — and the innovations they made possible — shaped the human experience. She's a materials scientist and, as you'll see if you read the polywater piece, a terrific science writer.

Full disclosure: i work for the MIT Press. but i'll also disclose this: books and authors like Ainissa are rare; i'm not a publicist or a sales person. This is just one of my favorite books that we've published in recent years. Oh, and if you want more stories like the polywater one, check out this segment with her on Science Friday ("How An Undertaker Helped Develop Computers, And Other Untold Stories"): https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/alchemy-of-us-book/.