HN Books @HNBooksMonth

Books I liked:

- Bargaining For Advantage (https://www.amazon.com/Bargaining-Advantage-Negotiation-Stra...)

- Negotiation Genius (https://www.amazon.com/Negotiation-Genius-Obstacles-Brillian...)

- Getting To Yes (https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...)

- The Coursera course from the University of Michigan (and not the Yale one).

- Getting Past No (https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Past-Negotiating-Difficult-Si...)

- Difficult Conversations/Crucial Conversations/Nonviolent Communications

The last bullet (arguably the last two bullets) are about conversation skills, but that is an essential part of negotiations.

I won't claim to be good at this stuff. It takes a lot of effort and practice to change habits you've formed your whole life. But still, I've improved somewhat. What I do think I've become much better at is identifying why someone's efforts succeeded (or in this case, failed).

I would also recommend Influence by Cialdini. It is not a negotiation book at all, but will make much of the material in those books more meaningful if you've read this book.

Books/courses I discourage:

- Never Split The Difference

- The Lynda course (there may be more than one now, but the one I took years ago was bad).

An excellent book on the subject is Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In

Had specific advice with examples. I think it's been helping me all my life. It is based on the work of the Harvard Negotiation Project.

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

Great post. Your reading list is excellent and I'd add Getting to Yes. I think there are some key elements you left out: (1) the concept of emotional safety and the value of brainstorming (Crucial Conversations), (2) seeing the problem as separate from the people (Getting Past No / Getting to Yes), (3) Negotiating interests, not positions (Getting to Yes).

Here are the links to the reading list (and I added Getting to Yes):

https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-...

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-...

https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Lif...

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Past-Negotiating-Difficult-Si...

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

I see posts like these once in a while on HN.

I suggest folks read some good books on conversations and negotiations.

Conversations:

Nonviolent Communications:

https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Lif...

Crucial Conversations:

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-...

Difficult Conversations:

https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-...

Negotiation books:

Bargaining For Advantage:

https://www.amazon.com/Bargaining-Advantage-Negotiation-Stra...

Getting To Yes:

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

Getting Past No (billed as a negotiations book, but really more of a conversations book):

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Past-Negotiating-Difficult-Si...

I strongly recommend reading Influence before you read these - much of what is in the books above will make more sense once you've read Influence.

https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Rober...

When you read these, keep in mind: Change is hard. Don't expect to read these and become good communicators quickly. It may take a few years of stumbling and practice.

I see a mixture of comments agreeing and disagreeing with the original submission. For those who disagree: Most of what the author is saying is in agreement with what the books say:

If your goal is to change someone, you will either fail, or will succeed at the cost of the relationship (and relationships at work do matter).

Another important related point: If you cannot summarize why the other person is acting this way without using phrases like "stubborn", "irrational" or similar negatives, then it means you have no idea about the other person's concerns and motives, and are being lazy. It is easier to label, and much harder to probe effectively. Additionally, people often act stubborn because they realize you are not really interested in their perspective. Internally their thought process (which is very rational) is "This person does not really want to hear me out, so I'm not going to invoke too many neurons engaging with him and will just dig in my heels." - which is why a lot of books focus a lot on listening skills (which includes skills to signal that you are listening - you may in reality be listening just fine but the other person does not know it - so you signal it by summarizing their stance).

A lot of the comments here are invoking false dichotomies. Since HN has a comment limit, I'll address some here:

>I don't believe you can have a successful software team with individuals who can't take a code review well.

This is tangential. You can give feedback in a code review poorly, or efficiently. Both ways allow for you to point out problems with the other's code. One way will not be taken well. The other way has a higher chance of being taken well. A big step forward is to realize you can have your cake and eat it too.

>I started to try and reason with people with carefully crafted questions to guide them towards my goal.

Leading questions is a bad idea (all the communications books say it). Learn how to state your concerns. It is OK to ask questions if genuinely curious. But if you want to point something out, learn how to state it in a non-defensive manner.

(3 separate comments below):

>If Kara's emotions and defensiveness can't handle a clearly articulated, rational, objective argument against design decisions, then for the sake of the product and the company, she probably needs to find another job. Avoiding discussions doesn't work for me.

>Learned to let go and he has his parts of the code base and I have mine.

>And this is how you end up with a terrible, in-cohesive product.

Again, false dichotomies. The solution is not to be quiet and let it go. The solution is to learn how to talk about the issues effectively. One of the books calls this "The Fool's Choice" - thinking that either you have to be quiet and not air your concerns (to save relationships), or that you have to air them and damage the relationship.

>It's either you convince them, or perhaps they convince you. Logic wins.

Logic alone rarely wins. One key point in one of the books: Don't pretend that emotions should not be part of the decision making process. The reality is that emotions are already part of the decision making process. If you get angry that someone cannot take your feedback well, emotions are present.

>It's safe to assume Kara wrote this article.

It is safe to assume that the author of this comment is unwilling to question his views on the topic.

That's what assumptions get you.

>I have seen more technical damage done by nice and competent people deferring to bullies in the workplace than by legitimate disagreements expressed passionately.

Another false dichotomy. What the submission describes is normal among non-bullies.

>The flaw here is that you assume that "Kara" will learn from her mistakes. Not always the case.

It is a similar flaw to assume that merely telling her what mistakes she made will make her learn from them. Definitely often not the case.

"Getting To Yes" https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

I've given away more copies of that book than any other. Improves all relationships.

"Elements of Style" aka Strunk and White. https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Style-Fourth-William-Strunk/...

I'd prefer they not only read Elements of Style, but work on it.

⬐ Recursing

If you liked "Getting To Yes" you might also enjoy "Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It" https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062407805/ that has a somehow different perspective on negotiation

⬐ xiuyuan

You might find this interesting regarding Elements of Style: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...

The original article it quotes can be found here: www.lel.ed.ac.uk/~gpullum/LandOfTheFree.pdf

It's quite heavy criticism of Elements of Style from the Professor of General Linguistics at the University of Edinburgh.

I just gave a presentation at work about how we're ridiculously overeducated on technical skills, and ridiculously undereducated on social dynamics.

I mean, I solved more complex technical problems in my undergrad than I've ever had to in my career.

My suggestion: While you may want to master a technical skill or two, become good at what they don't teach you:

Negotiation skills:

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-Wit...

https://www.amazon.com/Bargaining-Advantage-Negotiation-Stra...

The Coursera course from the University of Michigan is decent, if you don't want to read. But the other course (from Yale?) - I would not recommend that as a starter.

Communication Skills:

https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-...

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Talking-Stakes-...

https://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-Language-Lif...

Influence:

https://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychology-Persuasion-Rober...

(His work is often cited in other books - especially related to negotiations).

Networking:

https://www.amazon.com/Never-Eat-Alone-Expanded-Updated/dp/0...

Finally, a word of advice. Most of us here on HN have no trouble reading stuff and grasping its content. Internalizing it, though, will take work. So don't run away reading all these books. Pick one topic (e.g. negotiation), and read up on it. Take notes (I forget 80% of what I've read after a few months). And try to practice it.

Life is a marathon, not a sprint. Just focus on one till you feel you are good at it (perhaps for a year). Then pick another topic.

⬐ scarface74

I haven't read this book but I listened to a podcast (Knowledge @ Wharton) where the author was being interviewed. It seems like it might be worth a read.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1119081459/ref=ox_sc_act_imag...

Yes, it's called "bundling".

http://businessnegotiationservices.com/bundling-in-negotiati...

I highly recommend everyone learn the basics of negotiation. This isn't rocket science and is one of a set of well-known techniques.

Go buy "Getting to Yes". It's a great primer to negotiation.

http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-With...

⬐ philbarr

That book looks great. And cheap too, which is the way I like it.

I wonder if this "bundling" technique could be used in salary negotiations?

I used to work for a small dev shop (~30 devs) where we each had a personal review with the manager at the end of the year. The idea was you would review your performance - but everyone knew it was just waiting until the end of the meeting so he would tell you what your pay rise was, and you would try and haggle for more. I'm sure the scenario is familiar to many here.

Nobody ever got more than the manager's initial offer, and looking back on it, the reason was because he had a checklist of items that he would go through with you. It was impossible to excel at every single item, and those you did excel at he always managed to find a flaw with or find something you could improve on. By the time it came to the pay increase talks he had successfully removed any negotiating power you had, and you felt you had to accept the measly increase. He was excellent at this. People would walk in the room all fired up about what they'd done that year and how much they should get, and walk out depressed. Then we'd all go to the pub at lunch and whine about it.

The only time I ever got a decent pay rise was when I woke up hungover one Sunday morning and, with a flash of inspiration, thought, "hang on, I bloody well deserve an extra 20%! I don't care if it's nowhere near my personal review time." So on the Monday I requested a meeting with him and demanded a 40% pay rise and told him why. He didn't have chance to pick me apart, and eventually had to settle on just negotiating me down to 20%.

That was complete chance though, I don't think I can use getting drunk all Friday and Saturday as a successful negotiating trick in the future.

Twenty years ago I read "Getting to Yes" (http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Yes-Negotiating-Agreement-With...) before I had to negotiate something I really wanted. The skills I learned in that book has helped me every subsequent job I've ever had.

Much of the periodic blogosphere churning about salary negotiation should be eliminated by just posting links to this book.

I'm shocked that the book is not required reading for EVERYONE in the job market.