HN Books @HNBooksMonth

As a huge Ed Deming fan, I'd recommend these books:

- The Essential Deming: Leadership Principles from the Father of Quality: https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Deming-Leadership-Principle...

- The New Economics for Industry, Government, Education: https://www.amazon.com/Economics-Industry-Government-Educati...

- The Toyota Way: 14 Management Principles from the World's Greatest Manufacturer: https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Management-Principles-Manu...

Deming is really a great thinking in the area of product development and agile methodologies.

⬐ dragonwriter

> Deming is really a great thinking in the area of product development and agile methodologies.

“Agile methodologies” are basically Deming/Lean approaches reinvented with more reliance on subjectivity and just-so stories and less attention on coherent theory, measurement, statistical analysis, engineering rigor, etc.

⬐ marcosdumay

The Agile Manifesto does bring some Lean ideas to software development. But "agile methodologies" are by themselves a subversion of the ideas on the Manifesto, and the most deployed ones are completely antagonistic to Lean.

⬐ dragonwriter

> But “agile methodologies” are by themselves a subversion of the ideas on the Manifesto

I think that varies quite a bit from methodology to methodology; certainly, the ideas of the Manifesto operate a higher level than methodologies, so the idea that a canned methodology is a solution rather than a starting point is contrary to the Manifesto, but aside from the potential that the methodology will be treated that way many of them are in other respects consistent with and actively supportive of the ideals of the manifesto.

⬐ ajmurmann

It's interesting to read what other field's version of agile is and what we can learn from it and improve our own processes. Another over I enjoy is John Boyd who in essence created agile for killing people.

⬐ curiouscats

Online Deming resources: https://deming.org/online-resources-for-w-edwards-demings-ma...

⬐ madhadron

Deming's 'The New Economics' is a great book. Just ignore the part about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. The rest is solid gold.

⬐ vvanders

Another great perspective is This American Life's episode on the NUMMI plant[1]. Coming full circle from Deming back to GM.

[1] https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015

⬐ supernova87a

I also highly recommend listening to this entertaining episode.

To answer what someone else asked in the thread, the reason other plants trying to copy NUMMI failed is that the GM managers could only copy the things they saw of the Toyota system. The lines on the floor, the equipment, etc. They did not and could not (in time) copy the mentality and attitude of the workers and management, to believe that quality was paramount and that stopping the line was ok in the name of improvement.

The attitude sank everything, and is hugely revealing. All the best tech in the world will not save you from the wrong attitude.

⬐ petra

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, so - why NUMMI we're not able to copy the Toyota production system - given that Toyota has sent them experienced advisors ?

⬐ DubiousPusher

They did actually. I can't remember why specifically they closed the plant in the end. But one of the overriding laws of global capitalism is that it's possible to do everything right but and still lose cause of a trade deal or an acquisition or a global recession or...

⬐ jelliclesfarm

GM pulled out. GM already pulled out of that factory in 1982 and left the workers with nothing.

By the time Toyota came back with a JV agreement w/GM in 1984, the NUMMI factory was the only Toyota factory with unionized labour force. UAW Local 2244 embraced Toyota’s methods and processes. But when GM quit(again), Toyota had no need to be there anymore with a local unionized work force. How would that jive their non unionized labour force everywhere else?

GM quit. That’s what they did. They were quitters. As was Ford(quit in neighboring Milpitas a few years before GM). Toyota was brilliant. They did good to the workers they let go when they quit NUMMI. They did good by almost $280 million. Towards the end, NUMMI only rolled out Toyotas.

It’s all Tesla now. For a while Jobs ran his NEXT manufacturing from NUMMI facility before he was welcomed back to Apple. That place is legit magick.

By all accounts, NUMMI was a great place to work and with GM gone, Toyota did not need the UAW Local 2244. Why would they? It is also California’s insane regulations and strangling policies that drove the last auto manufacturer out. Until Tesla came into the picture.

And CA almost drove Tesla away recently during the covid year..who knows what the future holds.

⬐ dharmab

NUMMI was a success, but that success was not replicated at other GM plants. NUMMI closed during the recession as GM discontinued brands like Pontiac due to severely reduced demand.

Today a large part of the land is a Tesla factory.

⬐ vvanders

Yeah, they cover it pretty well in the podcast. By the numbers NUMMI did well however to achieve those figures they upended many traditional roles and couldn't get the leadership in GM to get on board.

There's a great little footnote at the end of the podcast about a small upstart company buying the plant with the vision of building electric cars in the future.

⬐ wpietri

Seconded. It's such a good portrait. The way the workers talked about the change sticks with me years later.

Adding to the recommendations, I found Rother's Toyota Kata very valuable in understanding how to make Lean approaches work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Kata

For applying it in software, I loved Mary Poppendieck's books, which are listed about half-way down the page here: http://www.poppendieck.com/

And for the math-inclined, Reinertsen's "Principles of Product Development Flow" is very insightful: https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Product-Development-Flow-G...

⬐ specialist

Thanks for Poppendieck and Reinertsen links.

As a fan of Drucker, Deming, Goldblatt... Today's "agile" has always confused me; I really don't understand when and why our profession jumped the shark.

⬐ wpietri

I was part of the early "agile" community back before that name existed. Occasionally I'll talk with somebody from back then and ask them how they think things turned out. The general answer is, "Well this isn't what we intended, so I've moved on to other things." Which is basically my answer too.

My best guess as to how the shark-jumping happened: http://agilefocus.com/2011/02/21/agiles-second-chasm-and-how...

The TL;DR version is that once it went mainstream, Agile was defined by the mainstream, which was not looking for excellence. Aided vigorously, of course, by the certification scam that is Scrum, where meaningless credentials were profitably bestowed by people who had little incentive to tighten things up. And one thing I've realize in ensuing years is that a key element was the culture of managerialism, which is inimical to anything that might make a manager look bad or diminish his empire.

⬐ specialist

re managerialism: I used to complain that we geeks got no respect. What I'd give to be ignored and neglected again.

I'm going to chew on your "second chasm" notion. Thanks.

Maybe it's just how things go. Fads, "selling out", poseurs, fashion, lost in translation, etc. Uncle Bob also references the rapid growth of our profession, where warm bodies are added faster than best practices can percolate.

To do list item: Maybe Everett's Diffusion of Innovations talks about this.

I've been getting a lot out of David Graeber's books, most recently The Democracy Project and Utopia of Rules. They're the first description of workplace democracy (collaboration, empowerment) which matches my own experiences. Back then, I was just kinda winging it (eg "What would Drucker do?"), because I really didn't have a lot other options.

Graeber considers the paradoxes better than most sages. eg How a movement begats its own destruction.

I keep thinking about that cliche of how anything taken to its logical extreme becomes it's own opposite, related to an abundance in one area causes a deficit in another.

Bringing us back to Goldblatt's Theory of Constraints. All balance is completely lost with all the players trying to hyper optimize their own little corner. Worse, "rationalists" weaponize fallacies like "beware the slippery slope!" to actively reject any kind of nuance, moderation, judgement, balance.

Thanks for listening. Trying to articulate my grievance helps me organize my thoughts.

--

Oh. One parting thought. I'm trying find a rhetorical basis for advocating moderation, proportional solutions. Something akin to rational altruism. I want a mashup of algorithms, game theory, and hedges (eg basket of investments, NPV) to guide decision making and governance. To make it okay to do 100 crazy ideas, because maybe 3 will hit the jackpot. To make it okay to try a variety of mitigations, because there is no one right-sized solution. Etc.

⬐ wpietri

Ah, I haven't had a chance to read much Graeber. Although I appreciated his notion of bullshit jobs; it sums up a lot. And good luck with your quest! Feel free to drop me a line if you get anywhere.

Somewhat agree. If you really want to understand lean principles, start with the masters of the topic and consider reading some books about Toyota. The first in the list below is a wonderful introduction to how lean manufacturing principles evolved at Toyota over decades. The others can provide more hands on experience on the topic and if you can mentally translate manufacturing principles to software construction techniques, everything will start to make sense.

The Machine that Changed the World

https://www.amazon.com/Machine-That-Changed-World-Revolution...

Toyota Production System Beyond Large Scale

https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Production-System-Beyond-Large...

The Toyota Way

https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Management-Principles-Manu...

Out of the Crisis

https://www.amazon.com/Out-Crisis-W-Edwards-Deming/dp/091137...

⬐ hashmal

I'm glad someone points to this. Quite often, criticism of "lean" is about stating that with a MVP you cannot make a car (with illustrations of skateboards and bicycles…)

But really, I can't see a better example for Lean than what car makers do.

⬐ travisjungroth

I have a pretty basic understanding of Lean Startup and Lean Manufacturing, and I don't think they have too much in common besides the name.

Mythical Man-Month, Fred Brooks [0]. Very informative series of essays on his experiences and lessons learned with IBM. If nothing else, helps to properly frame my expectations on projects with respect to resources needed to properly coordinate with others, and the pros and cons of adding people to projects at different stages (and in different roles).

Getting Things Done, David Allen [1]. Useful toolkit for getting things out of my head and onto paper (or org-mode or OmniFocus) so that I can properly focus and prioritize my time on the things I need to get done.

Communicating Sequential Processes, C.A.R. Hoare [2]. Strongly influenced the way I think about programs in general, but specifically in the embedded field where I work. (NB: I've not actually read or worked through the full text, but mainly taken what was needed to properly communicate ideas in my designs or to analyze designs and systems others have produced. This is a task for myself for early next year.)

Moonwalking with Einstein, Joshua Foer [3]. I've always had a good memory, I actually picked this up to give to a girlfriend who had a terrible memory and read it in a couple days before giving it to her (she was out of town when it arrived). Helped to explain methods that I'd somehow developed over the years, and gave me concepts and a better understanding of other methods of memory acquisition (for either short or long term purposes). If you really want to improve your memory, there are probably better resources to learn specific techniques, but this was an informative and entertaining overview. WRT work, we have to keep large systems in our minds all the time, and potentially dozens of different systems written in different languages. Memory is critical for this, even if it's just the memory of where to find the information and not the information itself.

Fluent Forever, Gabriel Wyner [4]. This one is my current read. Goes back to Moonwalking with Einstein. While the book is itself about language acquisition, it's actually given me quite a bit to think about with respect to general learning and memory acquisition (in this case, specifically for long term retention and recall). We have a couple training programs (we need more) for our new hires on development and testing. There are some concepts in here and in related readings that I think would greatly improve how we teach these folks what they need to know and in a way that would improve their retention of that information. We have a lot of people retiring in the next 1-3 years, so this is actually quite critical right now, though management is quite lackadaisical about it.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Mythical-Man-Month-Software-Engineeri...

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Produ...

[2] http://usingcsp.com/cspbook.pdf

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Moonwalking-Einstein-Science-Remember...

[4] https://www.amazon.com/Fluent-Forever-Learn-Language-Forget/...

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EDITS:

The Toyota Way, Jeffrey Liker [5]. I grokked Lean from this. Hardware focused, but the concepts can be (and have been) generalized to other process focused fields. This has helped with understanding what business processes really need to be codified, what feedback mechanisms need to be present for improvement, the criticality of bottom-up feedback and improvement (employee investment in the company/product cannot be overvalued if you want quality and good craftsmanship).

The Little Schemer, Friedman & Felleisen [6]. Going back to the comments on Fluent Forever. The structure of this is fantastic for conveying and helping students retain information. The Socratic method is very useful, and structuring courses and introductory material in this format is useful, this happened to be my introduction to it (well, I'd heard it before, but my first time really encountering it in practice). It's a useful tool for solo-study of a topic (pose your own questions and construct answers), and as a method of guiding someone to a conclusion or better understanding. Also useful in debugging software or decoding software you didn't write, after a fashion.

[5] https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Management-Principles-Manu...

[6] https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/little-schemer

"The Toyota Way" (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0071392319/) probably had more of a hand in popularising it overall.

The problem is the one tackled by W. Edwards Deming in his Quality philosophy. He takes the same stance: the quality of a product, in any production, is a result of management and leadership, organizational psychology, effective processes, and dedication to a systems-focused approach.

Start with Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Continue to this blog: http://blog.deming.org/

Read his dry and horribly written book if you want: http://www.amazon.com/Out-Crisis-W-Edwards-Deming/dp/0262541...

Or just head straight to something relevant and practical: http://www.amazon.com/The-Toyota-Way-Management-Manufacturer...

Moral of the story: Quality (all-encompassing quality, including everything from simple operational effectiveness, to market fit and understanding) comes from systems thinking.

I think the classic in this field is 'The Toyota Way': http://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Jeffrey-Liker/dp/0071392319

For those of you willing to pay for a canonical source on Toyota's philosophy, I heartily recommend The Toyota Way:

http://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Way-Jeffrey-Liker/dp/0071392319

It is much, much more than a 'lean system', although one of their major goals is to eliminate waste.

I'm also big fan of their 'go and see for yourself' (genchi genbutsu) philosophy.